10 years later...

imagine_74714

imagine_74714

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Just wanted to start some nonsense, cause I was bored.

Which rifle do you think would be around for the next 10 years and more? ARs had been the top dog for the last 45 years or so. Do you see ARs staying on the top for the next 10 more years? If there is another rifle to inherit the throne, what do you think it might be? Give us your opinion.

Personally, I think ARs still has a lot of life in it, but SCAR and other gas-piston based ARs are coming up strong.

What do you think?
 
AR will "be on top" as long as US postpones its already overdue replacement.
The moment they replace it, the internet armies will change their preferences as well and you won't hear "still good", "doing ok", "the best around" and so.

Personally I'm waiting to see what it cooks in Western Europe.
Since 2002, 16 West euro countries (5 of them LAST YEAR ALONE) announced the freezing of their national military programs for study and research of the small arms in 5.56 and 7.62 NATO.
The two industrial giants FN and HK have sensed the pesimism sorounding the sales of the traditional products and apparently foresee a dark future.
I'm very interested to see what their reaction will be, since that will say a lot about what is going to be a dominant gun in the 10 years to come, AND NOT the internet specialists' opinions or the mickey-mouse fanthezistic bull#### on some display at the SHOT show.
my 2 cents
 
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the AR's not going anywhere as long the the US still employs it. The AK will be around forever in one form or another as there are so many of them out there. Anything new to come along will probably be variations on this theme, untill the point in time that we move along to caseless ammo.
 
bushwhacker said:
Sorry, not up on the acronyms. What are you saying Greentips?
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I believe he is talking of the drive in some branches of the US armed forces to get rid of the Minimi (aka SAW, squad automatic weapon, M249) and replace it with something else, aparently the Ultimax is well up in the running, due to it's ability to feed from a drum rather then a belt.....nice weapon.
 
Cocked&Locked said:
I believe he is talking of the drive in some branches of the US armed forces to get rid of the Minimi (aka SAW, squad automatic weapon, M249) and replace it with something else, aparently the Ultimax is well up in the running, due to it's ability to feed from a drum rather then a belt.....nice weapon.
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I've always like the Ultimax, it is a slick unit.
 
Armedsask said:
I've always like the Ultimax, it is a slick unit.
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The way they float the action to get the "constant recoil" is terribly cool. As is the hundred round drum. All they need to get marine corp approval is an adaptor to feed from AR pattern mags and thats in the works. Pity we can't have one........
 
According to World Guns:
The Ultimax can be fed from proprietary, drum type magazine for 100 rounds each, or from STANAG-compatible (M16-type) box magazines for 20 or 30 rounds. The 100 rounds magazines are great for sustained fire, but can be reloaded only with the help of the magazine loading tools, due to powerful springs.
 
the m16 and the ak will be around for the next 20-30 + years maybe not in the world powers armies but they will be around thier are millions of ak's around and probably half as many m16's

look at africa lee enfields are still used in conflicts
 
No one exactly knows 10 years into the future but some 3 or 5 years from now are not that difficult to predict. What comes after depends on 1st results.

The Yanks are still trying to prolong the life of the M series rife in one way or the other. Is has been demonstrated ammo is also a very important factor in the equation, but this have been ignored several times over and by more than one country.

I don't want to give any bad news but currently the US DoD is doing every thing humanly possible to find a better round other than the 5.56mm NATO. :mad: Trials on the "Hydra" magazine wells have been in progress to make the M series weapons capable of chewing different ammo and mags - incl 7.62mm Nato and 7.62mm X 39.

I personally have a feeling that FN will be doing some great sales stunt in the not so distant future and prove to the west that a better weapon than the M series is very real. Don't forget that NATO had always looked upon the 556 as the Holy Grail and the M/AR design is the gospel. The reality is that there are other very good weapons that have been ignored like Bofors of Sweden and Valmet of Finland, but..... (I think politics)

Also keep in mind why NATO countries switched from 7.62mm to 5.56mm in the 70's and 80's. The US had humongous amounts of 556 and a quick reconciliation of a NATO round was the number 1 priority. In case the old USSR decided to step into Germany and central Europe. The St Etienne, Sigs, HK's, SA80's, etc were all built around the 556 ammo and today we have a bunch of weapons in the field that lack punch and that's a fact!

Now it looks like armies realized that and ammo evaluation is a must before designing a new weapon. Every thing is possible and nothing surprises me but it would be foolish to see the next main player in 556 and not in bullpup config. Something to the effect of a condensed Mk19 40mm rapid fire would be useful as an attachment to the main platform (if it will be small enough).

In Eastern Europe they might put some different icing for decoration on the AK's but the fundamentals would remain - just like the Beryl or mini Beryl (AKSU).
 
OK, I mean the debate on the issue of ammos (5.56 vs. other ammos) have been going on for as long as I remember, and practically I don't know why people are claiming that there are some sort of resistance against 5.56mm within U.S. government. They are happy with it, and let's leave it at that.
What I'm most interested to find out is, if there are any new technology that seems promising, maybe that will be incorporated into current firearms. Any obscure technologies CGNers noticed, perhaps?
 
IIRC the US has began adopting what we call the c6 to replace their GPMG and other then the stenag feed issue the saw/c9 is a fine weapon. It would also seem that the ar15/c7 with all the latest upgrades is doing its job just fine. The problem is that there is really no good reason to change and in the light of recient conflicts simplicity has proven better then complexity.

The changes I could see would be shorter barrelled uppers for the Canadians (more c8s in the field) and maybe but not likely a modified gas system, like I said not likely.

Decreasing the weight of the ammo with a caseless round (increasing the ammount a soldier can carry) would be appealing to the world's militaries but current efforts to date have not met success.

One thing I have heard from a few people who have experiance with it (including an Army weapons SME) is that the FAMAS is a good design. So maybe a bulpup bassed on the FAMAS could trump the AR. The problem with that is the French keep pissing the Americans off so. . .

I personally think that the next decade is going to see major changes in doctrine and tactics, especially for us as we bring in new equipment. The Americans from what I hear (see that as rumor) are starting to look for less expensive (see less technological) ways to wage war so. . .
 
As said before, caseless technology might get some attention.
There have been many tests in all calibers up to 80 mm.
Some include the caseless rig packed in a M16 looking like weapon.
I have recently handled and fired some protos,
but I think it's still too early for the mil specialists to give verdicts.
I'll see what pics I have permission to post in the next few days.
 
It's like a see-saw. 5.56 vs 6.8 (or whatever). The pending rounds just copy the Russian M-43 ballistics. How pitiful and tail-chasing.
The Wehrmacht(aka Bundeswehr) came up with the caseless ammunition and offered it but could not compete with all the countries jumping on the US 5.56 round and it's rifle, the M-16. Just too many Hollywold movies showing the coolness of Vietnam for the utilitarian G-11 to compete with. Caseless is the way to go but it all boils down to the biggest market, the Unites States. That market is dictated by what is best for the defence industrial complex and not what is best for the armed forces.
 
Teapot said:
It's like a see-saw. 5.56 vs 6.8 (or whatever). The pending rounds just copy the Russian M-43 ballistics. How pitiful and tail-chasing.
The Wehrmacht(aka Bundeswehr) came up with the caseless ammunition and offered it but could not compete with all the countries jumping on the US 5.56 round and it's rifle, the M-16. Just too many Hollywold movies showing the coolness of Vietnam for the utilitarian G-11 to compete with. Caseless is the way to go but it all boils down to the biggest market, the Unites States. That market is dictated by what is best for the defence industrial complex and not what is best for the armed forces.
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From what I understand the G11 wasn't successful for technical reasons. German SF (can't remimber name) have used it in limited applications but the key word there is limited which reflects the usefulness of the weapon. Really the Germans could have put it into service if they liked it enough.
 
Bullpups are in obviously, AR-18 gas system is also considered the industry standard now and so is plastic. All new stupid non-5.56 or 7.62 calibers will go nowhere because they would just be redundant when they would be better off just moving to caseless or lasers.
 
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