1000 yard rifle - which accessories I should buy

[dink27]

Hello Nutz,
I hope some of you Precision guys can help me with some difficult decisions, how should I spend a bunch of money!

I just picked up a Remington 700 XCR TLR in .308 Win. Now I need to put some kit on it so I can shoot Precision Rifle with the ORA. This rifle will be specifically for punching paper. What I need are some suggestions for parts and where I can get them from.
If it matters, this will be the first rifle I'm buying to shoot past 300 yards. I have taken a 22lr out to just past 250 and often shoot my AR at 100.
My budget for this project is $1000 for the rifle, $1000 for glass, and $500 for the little bits.

Optics
My budget for glass for this project is $1000. I'm looking for a variable power scope that will exceed 20X. I would like a ranging reticle and prefer it be in the first focal plane. I want to be able to hold for wind/movement and drop at any range regardless of magnification as well as estimate unknown distances based on taget size. I prefer to work in milliradians.
I am considering the Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 FFP with the EBR-1 MRAD reticle.

Base & Rings
I think I should get a single piece base with a 20MOA slope to allow enough adjustment for the 1000 yard shots depending on the scope.
But what base should I look for? Is there a minimum quality? Are the expensive badger or NF bases that much better or am I paying for branding?

I will also want rings that will accommodate mounting the scope a low as possible. Quick detach mounts would be nice but are not a requirement. I'm not even sure where to start. Are the $25 vortex rings going to cut it or do I need to spring for $200 NF rings? There must be a happy medium.

Bipod
Basically I've decided on a Versa Pod model 150-051, 7-9 inch. Is there anything else that's comparable in price/features that I should consider?

Odds and Ends
Bubble Level - should I get one? Am I going to notice a big difference between say a US Optics bubble level and a expensive Vortex bubble level at about a third of the price?
Rear Bag - who sells these in Canada? Or is there a favourite that is easy to obtain from the US?
Scope Covers - basically settled on Buttler Creek flip-ups covers

Did I miss anything important? Am I completely out to lunch? I've been reading for a while on CGN and other sites and the more I read the more I wonder what I should be looking for.

Thanks for your input!

D!NK

 

[Boomer]

Looks to me like you've thought out your system pretty well. I looked up the specs on the Vortex and it claims 19 mils of elevation, and the 20 minute base should ensure that most of that is useable. Once you've decided on a single load for your rifle, a custom elevation turret might be worth while, but not so much if you're constantly trying different bullet and powder combinations. A good test for your new scope is to "shoot-a-box", this should be done at close range to minimize shooter error and provides you with an idea of how repeatable your scope adjustments are. Put up a large target at 100 yards, fire your first shot, then put 6 minutes of elevation on the scope and fire the second shot, then put on 6 minutes of RH elevation and fire your third, now drop 6 minutes of elevation and fire your fourth, then finally come left 6 minutes and fire your last shot. Upon checking your target, there should be an equal distance between the holes, the group should appear to be square without one leg of the square being higher than another, and your last shot should hit or very nearly hit your first bullet hole.

I had an old Springfield 6-5-20X52 scope with an internal level which I swore improved my long range shooting, but I've noticed that the external bubble levels are less sensitive and as a result I don't pay as much attention to them. If you are shooting at a target on a square target board you really only need to index your vertical wire with the target frame, the problem comes if you are field shooting with no vertical or horizontal reference. Horus Vision makes a neat little unit which combines both a bubble level and a slope angle indicator. The trouble is that these guys won't ship to Canada so you need to have someone in the States buy it then mail it to you, or pick one up if you get down there. The one I have one on my .243 is pretty nice, although its trickier to set up on the scope tube than the slope angle indicator I have mounted to the rail of my .308. The slope angle indicator again is most useful in field shooting and is of almost no value if you shoot at the same rifle range time after time.

What comes as a surprise to some is that the Butler Creek scope covers reduce the size of your sight picture slightly. While these are a good product for rifles that are used in the field, if your target gun is used only at the range you might prefer having the full sight picture and use a removable scope cover.

You might consider either purchasing or making a scope shroud to prevent barrel heat from interfering with your scope image, and a sun shade to prevent glare.

With respect to bags and such, there's a pretty good selection to be had at Sinclair International, and shipping to Canada has never proven to be a problem for me, although I've primarily bought reloading equipment from them.

One item that seems to be missing is a good quality sling. I'm a big proponent of shooting with a sling and some of the very best are those made by Les Tam in Hawaii.

 

[Haagen_Dazs]

First of all, are you reloaidng? If so, skimping on stuff like the optics so you can buy a nice scale and good components would be a good idea. You'll also want a good chronograph and a 1 peice rest (regardless if you reload).

Second, you're bang on with the glass. The Vortex PST is the only scope that meets your requirements. You should look into the Falcon 5-25x56mm FFP too (it's about half the price). I bought one used and will be doing a side by side with my Vortex soonish assuming it doesn't sell.

Third, The Horus ALSI bubble level and angle cosine indicator is by far best bang for your buck. You can order directly from their site for $70. If you plan on shooting uphill/downhill (not sure what the terrain is like in Cambridge) an angle cosine indicator is equally as essential as a range-finder in this case. Also, buy a range finder if you'll be shooting on crown land. The more you pay, the less you have to guess in this case, no way around it for LRFs unfortunetly. Alternativly, you can buy a meter stick and use your mil reticle to range your set-up target. Not an option for hunting but certainly something to consider for shooting targets.

Fourth, If you plan on shooting this out in this bush at long ranges, a monopod might become a better choice than a rear bag. Wolverine is pretty much the only place for these.

Fifth, A long range drop chart will be required in almost all situations. You can do this free on sites like JBM or you can download an app on you smart phone; "Shooter" for android, "iSnipe" for iPhones.

Sixth, Don't spend money on brand name bases. Pick one for its cant and its height. I use a Farrell 20MOA from Mystic. Rings: I use Burris Signature ZEE rings with inserts. These are cost effective and protect your scope from marking. The best feature is the ability to adjust the scope cant for more/less than what your base is giving you.


It's never a bad idea to buy the minimum and work your way up. I've never needed a bipod yet, even when hunting I was able to find a stump. Bipods are for shooting prone, be it in F class or in the field shooting game/steel. I'd buy a Caldwell Lead Sled 1 peice before I'd buy a 2 piece set up (one of my mistakes).


Hope that helps!




PS: No need to "shoot" a box. If you have a good 1-piece rest, you can watch the scope turrets track a box around the target. This saves money, especially when you're shooting something at $2/round or more.

 

[Jamie]

but shooting a box shows your scope tracks well after recoil, some scopes have lazy clicks (it takes a click or to to start moving)I have seen this in some bushnell products

 

[Camaro2010]

I bought a Vortex 35mm level for my Millett and have found it made a large difference in my groupings. With the level it ensures that the rifle and scope is at the same angle every time you shoot allowing for more repeatable shots even if the target isn't level.

Here is a good thread on scope cant.

http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=678502

 

[Haagen_Dazs]

You should also budget for bedding the rifle considering it's factory. You can do it yourself or spend a bit more and have it done by almost any gunsmith. You can do a before and after as well to see if it has actually improved the accuracy of the rifle.

but shooting a box shows your scope tracks well after recoil, some scopes have lazy clicks (it takes a click or to to start moving)I have seen this in some bushnell products

Ture, but if the scope doesn't even track in the first place (as in my case)... May as well make sure it will track a box before wasting your money.

 

[maple_leaf_eh]

A tool box with the "Oh $hit Kit" essentials.

Cleaning supplies, potions, patches and rods.

A mat to lie on. A slippery tarp or poncho is not a good idea, except for rainy days.

A spotting scope when you can't look down the rifle scope. It helps to watch the wind, the leaves, the grass, etc outside the field of view.

A notebook, pencil, plotting charting, a windflag diagram, bulldog clips and elastics.

Hat, sweatshirt, gloves or mitts, sunhat, glasses, sunglasses, safety glasses, earmuffs.

Bug juice, sunscreen.

 

[dink27]

What comes as a surprise to some is that the Butler Creek scope covers reduce the size of your sight picture slightly. While these are a good product for rifles that are used in the field, if your target gun is used only at the range you might prefer having the full sight picture and use a removable scope cover.

I'm pretty forget ful about the bikini cover on my 22 and on my ar. When I'm spending this much on glass I hope I'll remember to put the cover on, but I was thinking that the open cover's would be more of a reminder. Good point about the reduced field of view as a result. Something to consider.

You might consider either purchasing or making a scope shroud to prevent barrel heat from interfering with your scope image, and a sun shade to prevent glare.

I think the Vortex PST comes with a sun shade, but another valid point I overlooked.

One item that seems to be missing is a good quality sling. I'm a big proponent of shooting with a sling and some of the very best are those made by Les Tam in Hawaii.

A SLING! How could I have forgotten about a sling I have one on my 22 and my AR you'd think I'd remember I need one for this rifle too!

First of all, are you reloaidng? If so, skimping on stuff like the optics so you can buy a nice scale and good components would be a good idea. You'll also want a good chronograph and a 1 peice rest (regardless if you reload).

I am reloading for the .223 and .45ACP. I'm planning to reload for the .308 eventually to. I'll probably start with some factory ammo to get an idea of what the gun likes as far as velocity and bullet weight and then get components to make a similar load and tweak from there. I really enjoy reloading and figured its enough of a topic onto itself to leave it off of the accessories for this rifle. Saving up for a good crony now, but I want to keep that cost spearate from this rifle as well.

Also, buy a range finder if you'll be shooting on crown land. The more you pay, the less you have to guess in this case, no way around it for LRFs unfortunetly. Alternativly, you can buy a meter stick and use your mil reticle to range your set-up target. Not an option for hunting but certainly something to consider for shooting targets.

Another investment I'm saving for separately from this project. I figure I should be able to use the reticle to measure the target's size and do the math to estimate my distance for the time being. I'm going to be punching paper mostly at known distances.

It's never a bad idea to buy the minimum and work your way up. I've never needed a bipod yet, even when hunting I was able to find a stump. Bipods are for shooting prone, be it in F class or in the field shooting game/steel. I'd buy a Caldwell Lead Sled 1 peice before I'd buy a 2 piece set up (one of my mistakes).

The trick is I'm trying to find out what my minimums are. I learned once long ago that I should buy the best I can afford the first time, cry over it once and move on. I had having to buy a new item two or three time before I find the one that works.
For me the Bipod is going to be a necessity, I will be shooting mostly from prone and some time off a bench.

You should also budget for bedding the rifle considering it's factory. You can do it yourself or spend a bit more and have it done by almost any gunsmith. You can do a before and after as well to see if it has actually improved the accuracy of the rifle.

Good point. In this case the rifle has already been bedded and the barrel is free floating.

Thanks for the tips so far.

I'm still looking for advise for which base and rings and whom from.


Thanks,
D!NK

 

[sillymike]

Reloading gears?

 

[caustic]

I'm using a weaver 20moa base and vortex precision matched rings and I like 'em they are quite beefy.

 

[Haagen_Dazs]

I'm still looking for advise for which base and rings and whom from.

Like I said, a Farrell 20MOA base is nice. Higher than most so size the rings accordingly. With a Vortex PST and 19mils of elevation, either 20 or 30 MOA will be sufficient. 40 MOA will be too much.

The Burris sig Zee rings will let you adjust for more cant if you'd like. They are also a great deal for the price.


Mystic Precision is where I got both of these and almost all of my precision relaoding gear as well as handgun stuff. There's almost nothing Jerry can't sell you if you're willing to wait. Prices are alright too.

 

[IH8120]

I'm using TPS rings and 20 moa base. Very happy with them. They make their rings to .0002 of an inch tolerance, which means 98% contact, no need for lapping!!

 

[cal9mm]

my $0.02

good rifle. thing is 2500 isn't very much for a precision rig. but it'll get you started. rule of thumb that i use is take the cost of your rifle and times that by 2, and that's how much your scope should be about. (give or take a few hundred dollars) point being, optics on your rifle are the 2nd most important thing in precision shooting. 1st being your marksmanship.

Scope: never used a vortex scope however my buddy swears by them and if their good enough for him then their good enough for me (and apparently an exception to my own rule if they indeed are as good of quality as my friend tells me they are). i use leupold or nightforce.

Bases and Rings: here's a kicker. you want some that is absolutely rigid. cheap bases use soft steal or aluminum, they flex and bend (however microminally, if that's even a word) with the action when firing. Good high quality bases are very very hard and are meant to reinforce the action so there is very little flex when firing. You're should get at least a 20 MOA base for the 308 caliber. the rings should be high quality too (adds to the rigidity and scope protection), with a large surface area to mount your scope, and once mounted to the base, lapped so that there is 100% surface area contact. i use a Near base with Mark 4 rings (only because i was impatient and couldn't wait for Near rings but thier pretty much the same-ish).

Bipod: versa is good, harris is good. i use a harris in the field for stability and hieght. That being said for precision, i don't use one. I use a sand bag, especially on the mound.

Extras: Level/cant bubble, i wouldn't waste my money on one. mount your scope properly and just use the cross hairs and horizon. Sandbags, cost about 2 dollars, a pair of tights and a cup of rice (corn is better though, dosen't soak up water as quick), done. scope covers? how are they gonna help shooting? if anything get a nifty little scope protector, it fits over your scope and rifle when your not using it to protect it from: scratching it, falling over, dropping something on it, when you drop it, kicking it, denting it when used as a hammer (ok to far) dust, rain, and any other acts of god you can think of.

One thing you should get: simple math, a wind chart (whether you use the flags or wind meter, or blades of grass or guess) and your dope card. and the ONLY exact way of getting your dope is to go to the range and shoot and shoot and shoot some more until you feel it has become a chore every weekend (and it does). in good weather, bad weather, hot, cold, humid and dry. Ipod applications and ballistic calculators only put you in the ball park (i use my ipod for music, it's more productive for me).

so pretty much what boomer said P) one thing, slings are good, IF you know how to use them.

Hello Nutz,
I hope some of you Precision guys can help me with some difficult decisions, how should I spend a bunch of money!

I just picked up a Remington 700 XCR TLR in .308 Win. Now I need to put some kit on it so I can shoot Precision Rifle with the ORA. This rifle will be specifically for punching paper. What I need are some suggestions for parts and where I can get them from.
If it matters, this will be the first rifle I'm buying to shoot past 300 yards. I have taken a 22lr out to just past 250 and often shoot my AR at 100.
My budget for this project is $1000 for the rifle, $1000 for glass, and $500 for the little bits.

Optics
My budget for glass for this project is $1000. I'm looking for a variable power scope that will exceed 20X. I would like a ranging reticle and prefer it be in the first focal plane. I want to be able to hold for wind/movement and drop at any range regardless of magnification as well as estimate unknown distances based on taget size. I prefer to work in milliradians.
I am considering the Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50 FFP with the EBR-1 MRAD reticle.

Base & Rings
I think I should get a single piece base with a 20MOA slope to allow enough adjustment for the 1000 yard shots depending on the scope.
But what base should I look for? Is there a minimum quality? Are the expensive badger or NF bases that much better or am I paying for branding?

I will also want rings that will accommodate mounting the scope a low as possible. Quick detach mounts would be nice but are not a requirement. I'm not even sure where to start. Are the $25 vortex rings going to cut it or do I need to spring for $200 NF rings? There must be a happy medium.

Bipod
Basically I've decided on a Versa Pod model 150-051, 7-9 inch. Is there anything else that's comparable in price/features that I should consider?

Odds and Ends
Bubble Level - should I get one? Am I going to notice a big difference between say a US Optics bubble level and a expensive Vortex bubble level at about a third of the price?
Rear Bag - who sells these in Canada? Or is there a favourite that is easy to obtain from the US?
Scope Covers - basically settled on Buttler Creek flip-ups covers

Did I miss anything important? Am I completely out to lunch? I've been reading for a while on CGN and other sites and the more I read the more I wonder what I should be looking for.

Thanks for your input!

D!NK

 

[caustic]

my $0.02

good rifle. thing is 2500 isn't very much for a precision rig. but it'll get you started. rule of thumb that i use is take the cost of your rifle and times that by 2, and that's how much your scope should be about. (give or take a few hundred dollars) point being, optics on your rifle are the 2nd most important thing in precision shooting. 1st being your marksmanship.

Scope: never used a vortex scope however my buddy swears by them and if their good enough for him then their good enough for me (and apparently an exception to my own rule if they indeed are as good of quality as my friend tells me they are). i use leupold or nightforce.

Bases and Rings: here's a kicker. you want some that is absolutely rigid. cheap bases use soft steal or aluminum, they flex and bend (however microminally, if that's even a word) with the action when firing. Good high quality bases are very very hard and are meant to reinforce the action so there is very little flex when firing. You're should get at least a 20 MOA base for the 308 caliber. the rings should be high quality too (adds to the rigidity and scope protection), with a large surface area to mount your scope, and once mounted to the base, lapped so that there is 100% surface area contact. i use a Near base with Mark 4 rings (only because i was impatient and couldn't wait for Near rings but thier pretty much the same-ish).

Bipod: versa is good, harris is good. i use a harris in the field for stability and hieght. That being said for precision, i don't use one. I use a sand bag, especially on the mound.

Extras: Level/cant bubble, i wouldn't waste my money on one. mount your scope properly and just use the cross hairs and horizon. Sandbags, cost about 2 dollars, a pair of tights and a cup of rice (corn is better though, dosen't soak up water as quick), done. scope covers? how are they gonna help shooting? if anything get a nifty little scope protector, it fits over your scope and rifle when your not using it to protect it from: scratching it, falling over, dropping something on it, when you drop it, kicking it, denting it when used as a hammer (ok to far) dust, rain, and any other acts of god you can think of.

One thing you should get: simple math, a wind chart (whether you use the flags or wind meter, or blades of grass or guess) and your dope card. and the ONLY exact way of getting your dope is to go to the range and shoot and shoot and shoot some more until you feel it has become a chore every weekend (and it does). in good weather, bad weather, hot, cold, humid and dry. Ipod applications and ballistic calculators only put you in the ball park (i use my ipod for music, it's more productive for me).

so pretty much what boomer said P) one thing, slings are good, IF you know how to use them.

I agree with most of what you said except for the level at long range it is a god send and in my opinion a must also I prefer bipod /rear bag over sand bag