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The bore on a sx3 is.742. Same on the sx2 and browning gold. That is overbored but not near 10 gauge.
10ga. Waterfowling Guns? Opinions?
- Thread starter 12Ga.Messiah
- Start date
The bore on a sx3 is.742. Same on the sx2 and browning gold. That is overbored but not near 10 gauge.
It does not pattern better! It is one of those, everything being equal things
The ten gauge has the potential to pattern better with heavier loads because the shot stack is shorter(for the equivalent weights shot charge) and less shot gets damaged by the choke. It is good in an everything being equal situation, and in theory, but each gun load combination is a law unto itself. The fact is the difference between a big 10 and a big 12 is about the same as the difference between 28 inches and 26 inches.
Not worth the argument. In my not so humble opinion, 10 gauges have the pointability of a railroad tie and I would choose a 12 everytime. There is a great selection of ammo available in 12 gauge. But for those who manage to point the big bazooka in the right spot, they seem to be gandar####ers.
It does not pattern better! It is one of those, everything being equal things
The ten gauge has the potential to pattern better with heavier loads because the shot stack is shorter(for the equivalent weights shot charge) and less shot gets damaged by the choke. It is good in an everything being equal situation, and in theory, but each gun load combination is a law unto itself. The fact is the difference between a big 10 and a big 12 is about the same as the difference between 28 inches and 26 inches.
Covey, I didn't think you'd fall into the same trap that most 10 gauge proponents do but you too are basing your conclusions on outdated theories based on lead shot. Stell shot do not get damaged or deformed passing through a choke.
I have not fallen into any trap. Even though I know that steel shot does get slightly damaged, you should re read what I said especially the everything being equal and in theory part. Another theory that I did not mention was that for a given weight, a wider bore diameter will create a more unfiorm pattern. It sound good in theory, but I have never seen proof of either. You asked if anyone could show you why a 10 is better. My reply was it is not and I stand by that. Truth is the 3 1/2 12 gauge is a modern creation designed for modern firearms and is as good if not better than ammo manufactured for the 10 gauge. If the ammo manufactus get on board, the 10 gauge may be better but I do not think it will be significantly better! The 12 gauge will always be more versatile, unless you're the type that likes to shoot huns with a gun that should be on wheels. and if that is your game, well have at it
BTW I am not a 10 gauge proponent.
Might be about the same difference as between 12 gauge 28 and 12 gauge 26 inch?
BTW what do you think is ethical steel shot ranges????
sheephunter,
just when you started with a good practical scientific explanation and fell into the trap of using the E word. Your definition =Ethical - would depend on a lot of factors, yada yada yada. Now you are adding emotion to the mix.
I still agree that the 12 is as good or maybe even better
sheephunter,
just when you started with a good practical scientific explanation and fell into the trap of using the E word. Your definition =Ethical - would depend on a lot of factors, yada yada yada. Now you are adding emotion to the mix.
I still agree that the 12 is as good or maybe even better
Ethics are an important part of hunting to me...far more so than science and theory. Not sure I'd call it a trap........
I think science and ethics need to come together in hunting. People keep saying that the 10 guage is a longer range shotgun but I've yet to see any real proof. Velocity and payload are pretty well identical and the whole business of pattern comparison seems unquantifiable so is it really an ethical choice for longer range shooting? I think a lot of people are relying on pre steel/pre 3.5" 12 gauge data and theories for what they think about the 10 guage.....................
Although there are a number of pattern experts on here that should be able to offer some insight.....
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Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
When I got my AYA 10ga. SxS, 3 1/2", the 12ga. 3 1/2", to the best of my knowledge, was not available. IF I was going for a shotgun for Ducks & Geese today, I'd probably go for a 12ga. SxS 3 1/2", if I could find one. But, as I already have my 10ga. SxS, a good supply of hulls & wads and especially with the tight patterns I've experienced in the past with the old Federal premium loads, why change now. I remember testing the patterns can't recall exactly what the pattern size was, excapt that out of this, my 2nd AYA, it was very good!! My only dilemma at present is obtaining a supply of Bismuth or hevi-shot. Again, because of tight patterns, I don't want to touch/alter the chokes just to go for steel shot.
Ya, nothing wrong with the 10 gauge that's for sure and no reason to give up on it but it just seems some owners feel it is some super long range cannon capable of far greater feats than the 12 gauge 3.5". From what I've seen it isn't but am open to being convinced!
Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
No, probably not, so for the longer range stuff I'll use slightly bigger shot. 'Duces for Gooses' and four's for Ducks and with 2 oz or 2 1/4 oz loads in the 1200 f/sec range out of the 10ga.AYA 3 1/2"
, "they'll" never know the difference.
That does raise an interesting point....does launching more shot at slower speeds give you more range than launching less shot at higher speeds, shot size being equal of course. You are seeing an approximate 25% decrease in velocity with the big loads you outlined. I know at first glance it would seem to be a shorter range load other than you are increasing your odds of hitting the target with a 30+% increase in the number of pellets............
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Johnn Peterson
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Chemainus B.C.
I was thinking in terms of greater pattern density at longer ranges with more shot, even though it was moving a little slower. Also, the larger shot size retaining energy at longer ranges.
Not being that familiar with the 3 1/2" 12ga so I took a quick glance in the Lyman Shotshell Reloading manual, trying to find loads listed at the 1550 & 1500 f/sec velocities you've quoted previously. Although I didn't see any 1 1/2oz or 1 5/8oz loads, those of 2oz and 2 1/1oz are about the same velocities as whats listed for the 10ga, at about the 1200 f/sec mark.
Not being that familiar with the 3 1/2" 12ga so I took a quick glance in the Lyman Shotshell Reloading manual, trying to find loads listed at the 1550 & 1500 f/sec velocities you've quoted previously. Although I didn't see any 1 1/2oz or 1 5/8oz loads, those of 2oz and 2 1/1oz are about the same velocities as whats listed for the 10ga, at about the 1200 f/sec mark.
Those were actually factory loads that I quoted.....
I agree with the pattern density but that can achieved with the 3.5" 12 gauge as well....possibly not as well due to taller shot stack but I wonder if it is enough for a real world difference??
I agree that larger shot size would retain a bit more energy but you could do that with the 12 gauge 3.5" as well.
Again, not knocking the 10 as it's a grand old gauge that definitely had its day and is still having its day but I can't help but think that those that feel it's far superior to the 12 gauge 3.5" aren't just kidding themselves....and possibly shooting beyond the ethical capabilities of the shotgun??????
I agree with the pattern density but that can achieved with the 3.5" 12 gauge as well....possibly not as well due to taller shot stack but I wonder if it is enough for a real world difference??
I agree that larger shot size would retain a bit more energy but you could do that with the 12 gauge 3.5" as well.
Again, not knocking the 10 as it's a grand old gauge that definitely had its day and is still having its day but I can't help but think that those that feel it's far superior to the 12 gauge 3.5" aren't just kidding themselves....and possibly shooting beyond the ethical capabilities of the shotgun??????
The load i use for steel is 1.5 ounces doin 1560 thru a chrongraph in the 10 guage.Rsi in the states has the same weight doin 1600'sec which i'm going to get for next season.The problem with the 10's usin factory loads is most of the research went to the 12 3.5 because of all the diff companys who make shotguns an people who buy them.The 10 lagged behind because most guys want guns that are all purpose .Were i hunt which only have a few hunters that hunt steady geese we all have 10's.My main load for geese is heavy shot at 1.75 ounce the steel load is for ducks .The good thing now is the reloading companies are really startin to pay attention to 10's and the ability to put big payloads at fast speed up in the air.
Sheephunter stick to your 12 i'll stay with the my 10 as far as sammi goes thats for north america .The same guns in England get proof tested buy the govourment before there sold so my gold 10 is rated for 15 000 psi over there.
Oh buy the way we swap recipes with the boys across the pond lol.
Sheephunter stick to your 12 i'll stay with the my 10 as far as sammi goes thats for north america .The same guns in England get proof tested buy the govourment before there sold so my gold 10 is rated for 15 000 psi over there.
Oh buy the way we swap recipes with the boys across the pond lol.
