Avalonthas
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Toronto ON
10mm rocks, buy it now!
10mm: Glock 20 or Kimber 1911?
- Thread starter dallasm
- Start date
Err, isn't the G21 based on the G20 platform?
If I were to choose, I'd say G20 over Kimber. Like anything else, its personal preference.
But I voted "other" haha. Either a Colt's Delta Elite or a S&W 1006 maybe.
Outcast
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Glock 20...owned one and put a 1000 rounds of various loads without one issue. No issue reloading just don't use lead cast. I used berry copper plated 180 gr and it was a laser. If you have smallish paws you might not like it, but I loved the full size G20.
I have lost track of how many rounds I have put through my first G20. All things considered I view it as the best 10mm pistol out there. I own/owned most of what is available. Just my opinion but the 1911 is a pretty poor platform for the 10mm if you plan to use it often. The EAA offerings are absolute garbage as well.
Hotwheels81
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- South of GP
G21 with a 10mm conversion barrel so you can play with .45 when 10mm is hard to come by.
Have had my G20c for a while now and I am very happy with it
Have had my G20c for a while now and I am very happy with it
I support this!
10mm
What is the expectation from your 10mm pistol?? This is the important question.
If you are going to shoot a lot of full power rds and or beat the crap out of the gun the G20 is the best bet. Typical Glock tough, designed from the get go in size and shape for the big 10mm.
If I was going to have a 10mm for carry, hunting, then the 1911 is my 1st choice.
Hand size and whether you can grip the big Glock frame is a deal breaker for most.
Doesn't matter what I do or how I hold on my hands can't get a decent pruchase on the Glock for even the 1st shot....gets very ugly on each multiple shot after.
The 1911 is a pure joy for my hand size and shooting style.
A PROPERLY built and setup 1911 10mm is a great pistol.
The gun needs a ramped/supported bull barrel, proper springing/buffering, and optimally a longer slide than 5in.
The Delta Elite in stock format is crap. The ridiculous multispring/plastic mousetrap coupled with the conventional unsupported unramped barrel is silly.
Spring and tune the gun for the pressure and slide velocity of the 10mm and it gets good. Longslide the gun and or comp it and it gets VERY good.
I had a Delta built with a ramped bull barrel, comp running a 24lb spring. SUPER pistol.
So if you want an off the shelf 10mm the Glock is prolly one of the only choices. I would think the STI 10mm must be a nice gun but I haven't shot or owned one?? I think they make a longslide 10mm which must be a great shooter?
What is the expectation from your 10mm pistol?? This is the important question.
If you are going to shoot a lot of full power rds and or beat the crap out of the gun the G20 is the best bet. Typical Glock tough, designed from the get go in size and shape for the big 10mm.
If I was going to have a 10mm for carry, hunting, then the 1911 is my 1st choice.
Hand size and whether you can grip the big Glock frame is a deal breaker for most.
Doesn't matter what I do or how I hold on my hands can't get a decent pruchase on the Glock for even the 1st shot....gets very ugly on each multiple shot after.
The 1911 is a pure joy for my hand size and shooting style.
A PROPERLY built and setup 1911 10mm is a great pistol.
The gun needs a ramped/supported bull barrel, proper springing/buffering, and optimally a longer slide than 5in.
The Delta Elite in stock format is crap. The ridiculous multispring/plastic mousetrap coupled with the conventional unsupported unramped barrel is silly.
Spring and tune the gun for the pressure and slide velocity of the 10mm and it gets good. Longslide the gun and or comp it and it gets VERY good.
I had a Delta built with a ramped bull barrel, comp running a 24lb spring. SUPER pistol.
So if you want an off the shelf 10mm the Glock is prolly one of the only choices. I would think the STI 10mm must be a nice gun but I haven't shot or owned one?? I think they make a longslide 10mm which must be a great shooter?
DeusImperator
New member
- Location
- Calgary AB
10mm on the 1911 platform
I was going to disagree with Terez until I read completely what he had to say. Agree totally that 1911 with a longer slide would help: keep slide velocities low and using a 22-24# single spring system with buffer should allow the firing of full power ammunition (200gn @1200 fps).
The IAI Javalina would have been a great 10 with the long slide but those had just 16# springs if I am not mistaken.
Problem with the G20 is that they do have unsupported barrels and this has lead to the KBM! in 357 Sig, 40 S&W and the 10mm Auto shooting jacketed ammunition. There was one reported incident with 9mm Para ammunition in 2008 or 2009. So in that even the G20 is not an ideal platform for the 10mm.
The new Dan Wesson Titan should address all these issues. However get read to shell out $4000 for that baby. It is big, beefy and weighs over 75 oz. which makes it heavier that a 8 3/8 bbl M500 S&W. but hold 14 10mm cartridges.
I was going to disagree with Terez until I read completely what he had to say. Agree totally that 1911 with a longer slide would help: keep slide velocities low and using a 22-24# single spring system with buffer should allow the firing of full power ammunition (200gn @1200 fps).
The IAI Javalina would have been a great 10 with the long slide but those had just 16# springs if I am not mistaken.
Problem with the G20 is that they do have unsupported barrels and this has lead to the KBM! in 357 Sig, 40 S&W and the 10mm Auto shooting jacketed ammunition. There was one reported incident with 9mm Para ammunition in 2008 or 2009. So in that even the G20 is not an ideal platform for the 10mm.
The new Dan Wesson Titan should address all these issues. However get read to shell out $4000 for that baby. It is big, beefy and weighs over 75 oz. which makes it heavier that a 8 3/8 bbl M500 S&W.
but hold 14 10mm cartridges.10mm
Yep
My Delta ran smooth, functioned perfect and had nicely controlled slide action with the 24lb spring running a full length guide rod and a bull barrel.
The recoil was straight back too with less muzzle flip than a 45acp in a regular configuration.
Needed to run full power 10mm though or she would short slide and malfunction.
I had a barsto 40sw barrel for it fitted as well and ran an 18lb spring with it that ran well and was very accurate running Winchester white box ammo.
Melted bomar sights/checkered gripstarp/undercut trigger area.....
Was a really nice weapon.
I sadly and stupidly sold off that Delta project a few yrs back....very regretable! lol
I will build another. I would go long slide route this time. The extra slide length/weight would slow the slide velocity further requiring less recoil spring and would be easier on the gun.
I would love to shoot an STI longslide 10mm.....I bet they are really nice.
Yep
My Delta ran smooth, functioned perfect and had nicely controlled slide action with the 24lb spring running a full length guide rod and a bull barrel.
The recoil was straight back too with less muzzle flip than a 45acp in a regular configuration.
Needed to run full power 10mm though or she would short slide and malfunction.
I had a barsto 40sw barrel for it fitted as well and ran an 18lb spring with it that ran well and was very accurate running Winchester white box ammo.
Melted bomar sights/checkered gripstarp/undercut trigger area.....
Was a really nice weapon.
I sadly and stupidly sold off that Delta project a few yrs back....very regretable! lol
I will build another. I would go long slide route this time. The extra slide length/weight would slow the slide velocity further requiring less recoil spring and would be easier on the gun.
I would love to shoot an STI longslide 10mm.....I bet they are really nice.
At worst you'll experience shorter brass life if you run full power loads in a stock gun. If your gun kbs it's almost certainly your fault. Use new or 1f brass for max loads and stick with loads from credible sources. This myth has been around quite a while and is mostly an excuse for people that blow themselves up trying to get extra velocity. I have noticed a lot of guys hot rod cartridges way past established maximum pressures.
DeusImperator
New member
- Location
- Calgary AB
@ B
It is not the high velocities which are an issue, it is the higher pressures that result in the KBM! Using 800X. Blue Dot, AA7 to achieve the high velocities is a recipe for disaster in the 10mm. AA#9 seems to be the best powder available for the cartridge and staying below max pressure of 37500 PSI.
The issue here is that there is enough credible evidence which indicate that the KBM! has occurred with factory ammunition. Of course, there is no way to ascertain that the factory ammunition (the particular cartridge which caused the KBM!) was within SAAMI spec. but without doubt fully supported barrels do provide a greater margin of error. In my time it was recommended that the G20 Gen1 and Gen2 be replaced by KKM barrels (which is what I did being a reloader).
Glock has states that shooting reloads would void the warranty, and I have heard a bunch of BS stating that polygonal bbl are not compatible with lead bullets. Truth be told Glock's polygonal barrel accumulates less lead than most conventional rifled barrels. My HK pistols never make the same proviso as Glock about voiding warranty when using reloads. I will stick to HK I guess as they seem a lot more confident about their own product than Glock appears to be.
It is not the high velocities which are an issue, it is the higher pressures that result in the KBM! Using 800X. Blue Dot, AA7 to achieve the high velocities is a recipe for disaster in the 10mm. AA#9 seems to be the best powder available for the cartridge and staying below max pressure of 37500 PSI.
The issue here is that there is enough credible evidence which indicate that the KBM! has occurred with factory ammunition. Of course, there is no way to ascertain that the factory ammunition (the particular cartridge which caused the KBM!) was within SAAMI spec. but without doubt fully supported barrels do provide a greater margin of error. In my time it was recommended that the G20 Gen1 and Gen2 be replaced by KKM barrels (which is what I did being a reloader).
Glock has states that shooting reloads would void the warranty, and I have heard a bunch of BS stating that polygonal bbl are not compatible with lead bullets. Truth be told Glock's polygonal barrel accumulates less lead than most conventional rifled barrels. My HK pistols never make the same proviso as Glock about voiding warranty when using reloads. I will stick to HK I guess as they seem a lot more confident about their own product than Glock appears to be.
I have never had any issues running max loads of 800x through a stock G20 barrel.
You won't KB one without drastically overcharging. B is correct, the unsupported chamber just means it eats brass.
I'll trade shortened brass life for increased reliability any day. Furthermore, the degree to which the barrel is "unsupported" is not particularly great. It's only slightly less ramped than many other barrels I have seen and used.
You won't KB one without drastically overcharging. B is correct, the unsupported chamber just means it eats brass.
I'll trade shortened brass life for increased reliability any day. Furthermore, the degree to which the barrel is "unsupported" is not particularly great. It's only slightly less ramped than many other barrels I have seen and used.
IMR800X and Blue Dot are my all time favorite 10mm powders.
You can't stuff enough AA#9 into a case to get pressures to high it is probably the safest powder to use in the 10mm = its also the most boring powder available for the 10mm.
You can't stuff enough AA#9 into a case to get pressures to high it is probably the safest powder to use in the 10mm = its also the most boring powder available for the 10mm.
Check out Hickok45 re Glock 29
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b1f6qbTFwc&feature=fvwrel
G20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcvcJSltRqA&NR=1&feature=fvwrel
My G29 has 4.25" Storm Lake barrel's in 40S&W & 10mm I have a 5" KKM 10mm barrel and a 4.6" KKM 40S&W barrel + a AA 22LR conversion kit for my G20.
My Colt Delta Elite may feel better and maybe slightly more accurate than my Glocks but it is definately not as reliable and that is after I spent over $2000 on my Colt...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2b1f6qbTFwc&feature=fvwrel
G20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcvcJSltRqA&NR=1&feature=fvwrel
My G29 has 4.25" Storm Lake barrel's in 40S&W & 10mm I have a 5" KKM 10mm barrel and a 4.6" KKM 40S&W barrel + a AA 22LR conversion kit for my G20.
My Colt Delta Elite may feel better and maybe slightly more accurate than my Glocks but it is definately not as reliable and that is after I spent over $2000 on my Colt...
That is the one I would want.
