12(6) discount

stampede said:
Since in buying a 12(6) gun, I would be buying a gun I can't pass on and eventually be of no value to me or my heirs, should I not expect a discounted price?

In addition since us 12(6) licence holders are diminishing in numbers every day it will be increasingly difficult in the future for me to sell it at any reasonable price, i.e a bad investment.


So, for example, how much (percentage wise) would I expect a typical 4- inch Smith and Wesson to be less than a 6-inch version ? .

25%, 50% ?
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I sold fourteen 12-6s in 2013 on the Epps website and they were all gone in 4 months and I got good prices for them.
Much more than I was expecting.
A 12X firearm is a gun that has already been banned and earmarked for the smelter when the grandfathered owners die off.
 
With the usual exceptions, Luger, PP, PPk and a few others, most of the pre 46 guns aren't worth $250 even if they weren't prohib unless you are a historical collector. Handing down guns doesn't even enter the picture when I buy my prohibs. I buy guns that interest me, and guns that I can actually shoot (and afford to shoot). 32 acp I don't even bother with. I have my ppk which simply is one of the must haves for a collection although I rarely shoot it. I prefer modern prohibs which are surprisingly accurate and well made. As has been said, price varies on the type of gun. I know from experience that my snub 629 and 624 (44 mag and 44 spec.) will sell almost instantly no matter what the price. (ask me how long it took to get them even just 5 minutes after they got posted) just because of rarity and badass quality. Yet a snub .357 can go a long time without selling
 
Ganderite said:
I have bought a number of 12.6 4" S & Ws. M66 $125 M67 $200 M29 $400.

Those asking more are welcome to ask for more. I hope they can get it. But most of us with 12.6 already have a barrel full of them. Deal has to be pretty good for me to be interested.
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same, I have quite few 12.6 but I still check forums once a month or so. IF its a great deal I will buy it. Still looking for a nice derringer if any one has one. Also like mint baby brownings :)
 
Riggseven said:
The fact that YOU can't pass the gun to your heir should have no bering on the value of the gun.
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Maybe not... but the fact you can't pass it down, also means that the number of individuals who 'can' buy you firearm is always shrinking...

Personally, I see 12(x) firearm as 'entertainment'. I can't myself spending more $200-$300 for tickets/restaurant/scotch... so the same goes for these handguns.
 
It's not a discount, more of a whole different market......... Smaller pool = different pricing dynamics. Cheaper or more expensive though that depends on how bad the 12-6 folks want it, just like every place else!
 
My general observation is that prohib guns go for about half of the same gun with a R-length barrel. It sucks.

Smith&Wesson...or somebody...could make a fair bit of money producing/marketing 4.2" barrels for revolvers...I know I'd buy a couple.
 
Prohibited Glock 26 in good condition: $1800.
Restricted Glock 26, new, under $1000...
How's that for a discount?

And even for $1800 (which is the most recent EE price I know), I wouldn't sell you mine. It's worth far more prohibited than restricted, and there are a number of similar pistols. Ask a girl who has the restricted and prohibited version of the same pistol or revolver which she prefers.

More to your point: Bond Arms vs. American Derringer, the same .45 LC / .410 derringer with 4" vs. 4.2" barrel, saw a 50% difference in my purchase price. The prohib was $400 while the restricted pistol was $600, both EE deals, identical (like new) pistols. That's a more common gun, and I think a more normal point spread.

While there are only about 38,000 12(6) holders left to fight over the 180,000 registered 12(6) firearms, they really do sometimes fight, though mostly with their wallets or offers of EMTs. I have seen people pay 4 times what a gun sells for new in the USA for a relatively rare prohibited revolver. As the 12(6) guys get older, two things are happening: most are accumulating a bit of cash, and most are also realizing that their days are numbered. If they want something, they had better get busy and buy it now. Tomorrow, they may not be around to enjoy it.

This doesn't just apply to guns, but, for example, there are more pretty girls made every day. Nobody is making any more pretty prohibs.
 
The value of 12(6) "can" be lower than restricteds, due to the smaller Canadian Market, but a gun with an otherwise high value can be easily exported to the US, for sale at it's proper value. So you'll find some guns priced lower than their 4.2" barrel brothers, and others that are collectable, way up in the thousands. In the middle are the ones that are prohib, but the owner still values them at $x, so that's what they're for sale to. If they sell, or not, depends on the magic meeting between someone willing to sell for X, and someone wanting to buy for X seeing his ad.
 
pypes said:
I'm curious about where you got these numbers from?
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http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/facts-faits/index-eng.htm

Interesting, the count of license owners by category of license is not published on this page any more... Last they published it, there were about 38,000. That number, or the new (there are fewer every day) count may be somewhere else on their website, or available upon request. Statistics are fun.

I would probably subtract from the 185,000 registered prohibited firearms the other prohib categories, 12.3 etc. (much smaller numbers than 12.6) fewer than 5,000, again back when there was more detail. There are also probably institutional (Police, Military) prohibited firearms included in this total, but that's my vague recollection from a conversation with someone in the Program some time ago. 30,000? Just off the top, Glock 19/26/23/27 (plainclothes issue in many agencies) and SIG P225/P228, and many other models where barrel length is no issue for Law Enforcement or Military use. Museums, business licensees, and no doubt others I haven't thought of will account for some 12.6 firearms that are not (under existing law) ever going to become available to individuals.

Any recollection, or any of these statistics, may or may not be accurate.

If we imagine that there are still at least 30,000 12.6 holders and at least 150,000 available prohibs in private hands, we get a nice round number of 5 per license holder as an average. There, a number you can compare yourself to!

There are no statistics shown for R-PAL holders do divide the 726,000 restricted firearms by ... but it will be fewer than half of all PAL holders, I'm sure. If someone has the time to find an publish the link to the number of license holders, I'd appreciate it!

There are some young guys with 12.6 PALs, plus of course us healthy old guys who intend to be here well past 100, still enjoying their guns, so Liberal and NDP disasters notwithstanding, we can debate the value of 12.6 firearms for at least the next 40 years.
 
It is true that the number of 12(6) owners is an ever shrinking market. I have 12(6) and the only way I think to get your value out of them is to shoot them regularly, your goal should be to wear them out before you check out.
 
The US isn't the market Europe is! They changed their laws to balance all the countries in the EEC. My son lives
there and he can buy most everything if he wanted.
 
Sorry, The rules must have changed since a few years ago.
I sold a Nazi marked PPK cw holster and 2 matching mags, to a US collector in the mid '90's and told him he would have trouble inporting it.
But he said he would get it in some how., Last I heard from him about 8 years later, he still had not got it thou U.S. customs.
Could he the Nazi thing, I forget. Wish I had it back, 2x the money now. BTW, he was a large collector and imported a lot of guns from here.
Has since passed on.
Marshall
Claybuster said:
If it has C&R status (Curio and Relic) under ATF rules a PPK can be imported.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios-relics
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