123Gr Scenar for 6.5 Lapua
- Thread starter ffgats
- Start date
I just started load development for the 123gr Scenar in my 6.5x47L.
Powder is Vihtavuori N540. Sorry I don't have N140 data. I can post some N540 muzzle velocity numbers if you are interested.
I used Lapua cases and small rifle magnum primers (CCI 450 Mag), and starting with Vihtavuori's minimum charge weight from their online reloading manual, I chrono'd 57 fps faster than their published velocity. I suspect this is because I used a magnum primer, and I am guessing they used a standard primer for their testing. Keep this in mind for your N140 testing if you use a magnum primer.
Seating: Using the jam method, in my rifle the bullet just barely seats in for 0.149", which is not enough for a good grip and concentricity IMO. Therefore seating a few thou from the lands is not possible in my chamber. (It is easy for the 139gr Scenar, which I usually seat about 0.020" off the lands).
At jam length in my rifle, the 123gr 6.5 Scenar for COAL is 2.779, and cartridge base to ogive using the Hornady comparator tool I measured 2.224" for jam. Everyone's rifle will be different of course.
For my beginning seating depth, base to ogive using the Hornady comparator and dial calipers without the zero (which adds 1.003" with my set), I chose 3.140". That works out to a zero'd base to ogive of 2.137". The COAL averages 2.692". Nothing special about this seated depth, it just sort of looked good to my eye, with plenty of room in the neck to seat deeper or longer.
I plan to experiment with deeper and longer seating depths, just have not had the time yet.
Powder is Vihtavuori N540. Sorry I don't have N140 data. I can post some N540 muzzle velocity numbers if you are interested.
I used Lapua cases and small rifle magnum primers (CCI 450 Mag), and starting with Vihtavuori's minimum charge weight from their online reloading manual, I chrono'd 57 fps faster than their published velocity. I suspect this is because I used a magnum primer, and I am guessing they used a standard primer for their testing. Keep this in mind for your N140 testing if you use a magnum primer.
Seating: Using the jam method, in my rifle the bullet just barely seats in for 0.149", which is not enough for a good grip and concentricity IMO. Therefore seating a few thou from the lands is not possible in my chamber. (It is easy for the 139gr Scenar, which I usually seat about 0.020" off the lands).
At jam length in my rifle, the 123gr 6.5 Scenar for COAL is 2.779, and cartridge base to ogive using the Hornady comparator tool I measured 2.224" for jam. Everyone's rifle will be different of course.
For my beginning seating depth, base to ogive using the Hornady comparator and dial calipers without the zero (which adds 1.003" with my set), I chose 3.140". That works out to a zero'd base to ogive of 2.137". The COAL averages 2.692". Nothing special about this seated depth, it just sort of looked good to my eye, with plenty of room in the neck to seat deeper or longer.
I plan to experiment with deeper and longer seating depths, just have not had the time yet.
For the 123 Scenar with N140 of 36.3grs, CCI 450, ogive to base 2.149”
Velocity 2790 fps ave. Shooting .285” at 100 yards
Varget - 36 grs at 2770 ave, accuracy are in .500”, which was not I am hoping for, but using Lee Auto Drum powder measure though could be the reason, will try measuring every drop next reloading session.
Velocity 2790 fps ave. Shooting .285” at 100 yards
Varget - 36 grs at 2770 ave, accuracy are in .500”, which was not I am hoping for, but using Lee Auto Drum powder measure though could be the reason, will try measuring every drop next reloading session.
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Henry Nierychlo
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i have H4350 for sale. It's listed on my website. Please check it out.
Regards, Henry
Regards, Henry
This is my only muzzle velocity test so far with the 123gr Scenars, using a Magnetospeed V3.
Four-shot groups per charge. Not enough for statistical rigor, and I think the ES and SD would expand with more rounds per charge. But I just wanted to get a general idea to help me find a good starting load to start working up.
I did not measure group size on paper because using the Magnetospeed, I don't trust the groups not to be affected.
From Vihtavuori online reloading manual for 6.5x47L with N540, 123gr Scenar, and a standard primer:
Min =35.7 gr, V0 Min = 2685 fps
Max = 39.7gr, V0 Max = 2976 fps
My gear and data:
Cartridge: 6.5x47 Lapua
Barrel = 26"
Twist = 1:8
Brass: Lapua fired 1x (fire-formed), chamfered and deburred, neck sized with 0.288" bushing.
Powder: Vihtavuori N-540
Small rifle primer: CCI 450 Magnum
Bullet seating: COAL = 2.692", Ogive = 2.137" (with Hornady comparator)
Test day: Temp = 14C. Baro = 997.6 hPa.
Two graphs below for velocities and ES/SD.
No worrisome pressure signs. I could load hotter but I don't need to. I think I will stay somewhere within these lower velocities to save on barrel life. If I used a standard SR primer, I am guessing the velocities would be lower.
Attachments
I just ran another muzzle velocity (V0) test using the same charge weights as in my post above, 4-shot average per charge, but this time using Federal 205 Match standard primers. As I predicted the muzzle velocity was lower with the standard Fed primers compared to the CCI 450 magnum primers, but not as much as I thought. V0 difference per charge ranged from 17 fps 41 fps, with an average difference of 27. The V0 comparison graph is shown below.
What was different with the Fed Match primer test was the atmospherics: Temperature = 7.5C, Baro = 969.8 hPa. The ammo would have been cooler sitting on the bench, and the barrel would have cooled faster than my CCI 450 Mag test, but nothing I can do to control the atmospherics.
Also shown below is the ES and SD with the Fed 205 Match primer test. The ES/SD values were different per charge weight between the two primers except for an interesting flat low spot around 36.0 gr to 36.2 gr that looks remarkably similar in pattern to the CCI 450 plot. However with only 4 shot groups per charge weight, the sample sizes are way too small to draw any statistically significant conclusions from the results. Larger (and more expensive!) sample sizes would likely change the shape of these graphs.
What was different with the Fed Match primer test was the atmospherics: Temperature = 7.5C, Baro = 969.8 hPa. The ammo would have been cooler sitting on the bench, and the barrel would have cooled faster than my CCI 450 Mag test, but nothing I can do to control the atmospherics.
Also shown below is the ES and SD with the Fed 205 Match primer test. The ES/SD values were different per charge weight between the two primers except for an interesting flat low spot around 36.0 gr to 36.2 gr that looks remarkably similar in pattern to the CCI 450 plot. However with only 4 shot groups per charge weight, the sample sizes are way too small to draw any statistically significant conclusions from the results. Larger (and more expensive!) sample sizes would likely change the shape of these graphs.
Attachments
Had the chance to test my Varget load using the 123 Scenar although was not able to measure the velocity, range was crowded on a Saturday. 37.1-37.5 grs shooting same POI and exhibits same group size. That is .200” and less, prepared 2 seating depth 2.150”( same as factory rounds ) and 2.165”, with same results. Liking this loads.
With the N140 of 37.0 grs, the seating depth made a difference, the 2.165” was printing ..700” while the 2.150”( same as Lapaua factory) shooting .200” and less, identical to the Varget load. But feels like the N140 is softer on recoil than Varget. Estimated velocity for all loads would be on the mid 2800, base on my previous chrono posted previously.
Sample size was only 3 of the 5 shots , try to conserve some components here, like what I’m seeing with 2 powders shooting identical accuracy . H4350 is my next test, unless you have some recommendations, would like to have 3-4 powders ready on standby especially the powder supply situation right now. Almost forgot about RL15 too.
With the N140 of 37.0 grs, the seating depth made a difference, the 2.165” was printing ..700” while the 2.150”( same as Lapaua factory) shooting .200” and less, identical to the Varget load. But feels like the N140 is softer on recoil than Varget. Estimated velocity for all loads would be on the mid 2800, base on my previous chrono posted previously.
Sample size was only 3 of the 5 shots , try to conserve some components here, like what I’m seeing with 2 powders shooting identical accuracy . H4350 is my next test, unless you have some recommendations, would like to have 3-4 powders ready on standby especially the powder supply situation right now. Almost forgot about RL15 too.
Try some groups at 300/400yds if you can and you will prob see the winner. You want horizontal groups, not vertical.
I found that my best groups with 123 scenars, 130 hybrids, and 130 tsk's, were either 20 off or 55 off.
Varget, N140, or R15 are all go-to's for the x47. CCI 450.
Good luck!
I found that my best groups with 123 scenars, 130 hybrids, and 130 tsk's, were either 20 off or 55 off.
Varget, N140, or R15 are all go-to's for the x47. CCI 450.
Good luck!
