I noticed factory 124grainers "managed recoil" 308 ammunition, I wonder if they will cycle M14? It says 2600fps on the box, I think it may be a little too weak, especially out of shorter 18.5" barrel. Anybody ever tried those? 308 is a bit too intimidating for younger shooters, nothing unmanageable but lots of noise and push. Or maybe someone knows good "recipe" that will keep M14 cycling and velocities up at 2600fps with lot less felt recoil? Thanx beforehand...
124grainers "managed recoil" in M14
- Thread starter 22lr
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I am assuming from this that you mean handloading.. I myself was asking around a few months back for some reduced recoil loads to try and make the 7.62 (308win) round fill a cqb roll. By this, I was looking for reduced recoil load that would allow me to re-aquire the target faster, being good from point blank to no more then 200 yards. My only concern; like yours, was that there would be enough pressure left over to push the op-rod back recocking the m14 reliably.
Unfortunatly while some elluded to having recipies for such a handload, nobody wanted to share
Like it was a closely guarded secret or something. Thus I was was forced to start experimenting.I'll share with you what I found .. which wasn't a whole lot as I soon decided to abandon that project and purchase a mini-14 in .223 rem.
(i have to take care of something, I'll edit this post in about 20 mins with all my data!)
EDIT
Here is an excerp from my first After Action Report
"I...settled on Hodgsons 'youth' loads listed on their websites. I found listed: 125grain Nosler BT, 38 grains of H4895, 2.800" OAL. My only concern was the port pressur ebeing too low to push back the op rod. Tested 38 grains of IMR 4895, 40-45 grains of IMR 4895 in 1 grain incriments. 125 grain Nos Ballistic Tip bullet, CCI # 200 large rifle primer, Remington Metallic Case to a min. OAL of 2.800". (Trim to length 2.007") The results are listed below. All shot at 50 yards.:
38 grains - Very pronounced mechanical noise during cycling. Carbon found in rim and on neck. Overall dirty case. Groupings were average, approx 2". Next to no recoil.
40 and 41 grains - mild recoil, normal cycling with no abnormal sounds or malfunctions. Groupings were approx 2". Carbon on neck only. Somewhat dirty load.
42 grains- normal carbon residue, groupings 1.457 and 1.774. Not as accurate as I hoped, but the most accurate from all the charges tried.
43 and 44 grains - same as 40-41 grains above. Normal carbon residue.
45 grains - normal carbon residue. groupings approx 2"."
At no time did I experience failure to eject or recocking problems, but my conclusions state that 42 would be as low a charge with IMR 4895 in the norc M14 that I would feel comfortable going.
You may find this entertaining, "Sadly you cannot polish a turd. Not only is th ebest group onlyh averaging 1.5" at 50 yards, but the bullets are easily twice as expensive as others, as well as extremely hard to find. I think this path has lead to a dead end, and a change in bullets would be prudent."
EDIT
I found another report, this time referencing Sierra's 5th Ed Hanloading Manual (pg 536). They list th estarting charge for Bullet # 2120 SP 125 grain as 42.5 grains if IMR 4895.
I used the following:
Sierra MK #2120 125 grain Spizer Point
Rem Metallic Case
CCI # 200 large rifle primer
IMR 4895
Min OAL of 2.700"
Tested powder charges from 42 grains to 46 grains in 1 grain incirments.
42-lots of carbon, dirty case. 1.5" groups. very little recoil. No malfunctions
43-lots of carbon, less on the rim then 42. more recoil then 42 grains but still consider reduced recoil. groups average 0.750"!
44-carbon same as 43, recoil same as 43, 2" groups
45-mild carbon, recoil much more pronounced. Would not consider reduced recoil. Groups about 1".
46-mild carbon, NOT reduced recoil, max load. groups as 45 grains. Targets showing signs of stringing.
I have another report refining the load down to 43 grains. This was my final conclusion as being sufficiently reduced recoil for its intended purpose and being the most accurate load for my rifle.
I sure do hope that helps, and sorry for the novel
I just LOVE sharing my results.
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I shot up about 500 of the Lapua 123 Gr FMJ .310" bullets in M14 rifles and AR 10 rifles.
This bullet is designed for the 7.62X39 Russian . I used Winchester 748 BALL powder, which meters nicely, and more importantly, seems to have a burn rate that works well in light AND HOT loads in the 14 and the 10. Velocity was approximately a duplicate of the 7.62X39 ballistics [ 2450 fps ]. This load was great for practice and "practical" matches, with very little recoil in the HEAVY Battle rilfes, and shot well in most of the MANY 14s and 10s I tried it in. No failures to function were noted.
I also played around with the Remington .308 / .223 SABOT loads, marketed as the Acellerators. These were exceptionally accurate in some rifles [ but they did shoot to a noticeably different point of aim ] .
If you want a factory light recoiling load, with supposedly great stopping power on thin skinned targets, you might look at the Hornady TAP ammo.
LAZ 1
This bullet is designed for the 7.62X39 Russian . I used Winchester 748 BALL powder, which meters nicely, and more importantly, seems to have a burn rate that works well in light AND HOT loads in the 14 and the 10. Velocity was approximately a duplicate of the 7.62X39 ballistics [ 2450 fps ]. This load was great for practice and "practical" matches, with very little recoil in the HEAVY Battle rilfes, and shot well in most of the MANY 14s and 10s I tried it in. No failures to function were noted.
I also played around with the Remington .308 / .223 SABOT loads, marketed as the Acellerators. These were exceptionally accurate in some rifles [ but they did shoot to a noticeably different point of aim ] .
If you want a factory light recoiling load, with supposedly great stopping power on thin skinned targets, you might look at the Hornady TAP ammo.
LAZ 1
Right now I'm following Laz's lead (again). The lightest load that I found with the 123 grain bullets that would reliably cycle my 'Rinco was 45.0 grains of 748. All the way down to 41 grains (the lowest I tried) would cycle it most of the time; but even up to 44.6 grains I got about 1-in-10 that didn't fully cycle. 45.0 cycled 100% for 20 rounds.
Now I've found the lowest load, the next round of loading will be looking at velocity and accuracy. But that won't happen until I pull all the lesser rounds, to recycle the components.
Oh, BTW I'm using once-fired Hirtenberger cases and WLR primers.
Now I've found the lowest load, the next round of loading will be looking at velocity and accuracy. But that won't happen until I pull all the lesser rounds, to recycle the components.
Oh, BTW I'm using once-fired Hirtenberger cases and WLR primers.
Splatter,
My loads were in 7.62 NATO Military brass [ IVI or LCM Match ].
If I remember correctly, I was using 43 Grs of 748, and with the .3105" 123 Gr bullets.
Maybe the slightly larger 7.62X39 Russian LAPUA bullets changes the equation considerably.
What velocity are you getting?
I was at about 2450 fps in my 18.5" barrels.
of course, as always,
YPMMV
LAZ
My loads were in 7.62 NATO Military brass [ IVI or LCM Match ].
If I remember correctly, I was using 43 Grs of 748, and with the .3105" 123 Gr bullets.
Maybe the slightly larger 7.62X39 Russian LAPUA bullets changes the equation considerably.
What velocity are you getting?
I was at about 2450 fps in my 18.5" barrels.
of course, as always,
YPMMV
LAZ
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I'm using the Hirtenberger (Austrian) surplus brass. Like I said, 41.0 grains would cycle most of the time: but I'd run a string of all 4, 5-shot mags and if there was any short stroking in the string, I'd try one more string and stop on the first FTF.
And I'm also using 122.5 grain .3104 FMJs. Mine are salvage rather than the Lapua tho.
I haven't looked for a velocity yet, nor accuracy. I was only looking for the minimum load that would cycle my rifle all the time. Next task will be accuracy and velocity. I'll start at 45.0 and work-up in 0.3 grain steps. The max load in my book is 52 grains, so I've got a long way to go to find a sweet spot.
Also , it was -5°C with a pretty good wind, so the rifle cooled pretty quickly and the ammo was at ambient temp (had been in a metal tool box all night in the back of my truck). I understand that 748 is a bit sensitive to temperature, so maybe that accounts for some of the difference?
And I'm also using 122.5 grain .3104 FMJs. Mine are salvage rather than the Lapua tho.
I haven't looked for a velocity yet, nor accuracy. I was only looking for the minimum load that would cycle my rifle all the time. Next task will be accuracy and velocity. I'll start at 45.0 and work-up in 0.3 grain steps. The max load in my book is 52 grains, so I've got a long way to go to find a sweet spot.
Also , it was -5°C with a pretty good wind, so the rifle cooled pretty quickly and the ammo was at ambient temp (had been in a metal tool box all night in the back of my truck). I understand that 748 is a bit sensitive to temperature, so maybe that accounts for some of the difference?
