12g slugs for stopping Grizzlies and Polar Bears

Waterfowler -

I saw a polar bear killed with a load of birdshot to the face at contact close - that does not make it the right tool for the job, but to suggest that a shotgun slug will kill the biggest game animals in the world is a stretch.
 
Under 25 yards, shot to the head or chest?? Maybe some might not expire immediately with the chest shot, but I can't think of anything that will take a Brenneke in the punkin and keep on going.
 
Waterfowler said:
Under 25 yards, shot to the head or chest?? Maybe some might not expire immediately with the chest shot, but I can't think of anything that will take a Brenneke in the punkin and keep on going.
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Elephant, hippo, cape buff, rhino - white or black.....besides hitting the head and hitting the brain are two different things. Considering a shotgun slug's poor penetration - 12" in tissue - the slug would never get to the brain on really big game animals, and without the brain being hit all you've done is to cause a nasty wound. Most times, shooting an unwounded animal in the head is a bad idea - simply because it is a tough target, and is therefore more likly to cause a wound than a kill.

In a North American context - sure I've used a shotgun against bears, particularly close to town where I prefer the shotgun because a rifle bullet could exit. However, it is important to realize the short coming of shotgun ammo and use it accordingly.
 
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Just for your info, when I was in Juneau Alaska in May 2000, the local ammo
sellers sold various bear specific defensive rounds. They always were sold out of 12 gauge slugs, however they had 44 magnum solid brass ( looked like it )
flat nosed rounds in little tan colored plastic "wallets" of 12 rounds each. The company that made them is called"Arctic Ammunition Company" but I have never seen a web sight for it. Also sold over counter was 45-70 corbon "penetrator" with a copper jacketed profile again flat nosed rounds of adequate weight.
 
PS I seen a USA Law enforcement website and they claimed the remington copper 50 calibre sabots performed very well compared to anything else.
In the old days pre-rifled shotguns, the Brenekkes, with the felt wad on the base were the best on the market........
 
I have seen those in the Remington catalog and thought that they may work out pretty good for bear/animal defense.

Has anyone shot them and if so have you shot them into any kind of test medium?

Thanks
Cam
 
I work for the BC Forest Service and I carry a Marlin 1895 in .45-70 loaded with 400gr speer FP behind a magnum primer and 53gr of IMR 3031.
Thats a 400ge bullet going almost 1850 feet per second
and this combination is devastating
In addition the lever action is very fast but not as fast as a pump shotgun. Nor is it as quick to reload as the shotgun
 
Riflechair said:
I work for the BC Forest Service and I carry a Marlin 1895 in .45-70 loaded with 400gr speer FP behind a magnum primer and 53gr of IMR 3031.
Thats a 400ge bullet going almost 1850 feet per second
and this combination is devastating
In addition the lever action is very fast but not as fast as a pump shotgun. Nor is it as quick to reload as the shotgun
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Riflechair -
When I carried a Marlin that's the load and bullet I used, and I agree, it was devastating.
 
I stopped carrying my 18.5" rifle sighted barreled Rem 870 with an extended mag tube due to the lack of availbility of quality slugs here in Canada.

I now carry a Marlin 1895GS 45-70 as well and also use the Speer 400gr jacketed bullet, Rem 405gr jacketed or 420gr/430gr hard cast but I always use 55grs H322 powder for a 1950fps velocity when I'm in black bear country.

My load for grizzly country is a 550gr Jae-Bok Young "Crater" hard cast at 1600fps.

I actually don't see much of a difference in the speed of the lever/pump actions because I am actioning the slide/lever during recoil.

Cam
 
for me,my take on the whole self defence against big bear is...short range engagment,either meeting encounter or ambush.in the dense alder regen up here in prince george,i have decided to leave my bolt action magnums and even the 444 marlin at home for a self loading shotgun with federal 3inch magnum 1 oz slugs.i will sacrifice penetration and energy for IMHO sufficient penetration and wound characteristics,plus the firepower of 6 rounds,which i can accuratly place in a target in 15 yards in just over a second.while i have not used a slug on a big bear,i have used it alot on thick skinned wild pig,along side a 45/70.so..with my confidence in it and ability to use it well,my beretta shotgun with slugs is the best defensive choice for me
 
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Oh god..this guy again?/

Once again, the proper mindset is the most important thing...

But if you must do it..

Brenneke slugs. Use 23/4" less recoil, and do the same thing.
;)
 
Federal has come out with an interesting Barnes saboted slug that I am going to be looking into. They come in both 2 3/4" & 3" and weigh about 1 oz/438grs.
 
I have seen buckhammers used on deer in Ontario. I was not impressed with the penetration of the projectile. The shot was 20m into the right shoulder and the projectile did not exit the animal. It did flatten considerably. The load was 12g 2 3/4. I would not used the slugs again for whitetail as I feel it performed less than desired. Would it have penetrated at 75? or wounded the animal? I am not going to find out!
 
Gatehouse said:
Oh god..this guy again?/

Once again, the proper mindset is the most important thing...

But if you must do it..

Brenneke slugs. Use 23/4" less recoil, and do the same thing.
;)
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My feelings exactly...;)

I can't help but wonder if this cameraman is laying awake at night worrying about Bears in the bush... and he is going to protect a film crew... what do you figure will happen when he sees one:p
 
A 19" barreled .458 Winchester Magnum built on an M98 Mauser action with a Ghost Ring and loaded with 500gr round nosed soft points.

edit: I also think that one well thought out shot with this setup is better than a salvo of slugs.
 
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1899 said:
A 19" barreled .458 Winchester Magnum built on an M98 Mauser action with a Ghost Ring and loaded with 500gr round nosed soft points.

edit: I also think that one well thought out shot with this setup is better than a salvo of slugs.
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A well thought out shot might be wishful thinking when Ursus Bigfarging teethus is coming for you at 50 feet per second!
Your .458 gives about 4000 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle.... so do sabot slugs... the brennekes are around 3300 foot pounds... I think a salvo of slugs will do the job... probably just one good/lucky one would do the job...;)
 
I carry my Mossy 500 with bearspray on the hip and 2 extra full loads.

I use 2 ¾” , 3”, 3”, 3” , 2 ¾” slugs.

I found that I get a better first shot with the 2 ¾” shot than the 3” and having the 2 ¾” at the rear helps prevent my follower from jamming, also if I am using that round the bear is on top of me.

Recoil from slugs can e painful and you really need to practice. Everytime I go out in the field I take some extra rounds with me and practice. I also make sure that I fire the gun before going out as I have had two failures, (load and to fire) If you don’t shoot it, you won’t know if it works.

If you can’t take extra ammo or will get a chance to shoot it, get some snap caps to check that it cycles and by placing a tiny piece of tape on the snap cap primer you can check that it is being hit. Also practice with birdshot and 2 ¾” slugs.

Plus cycle your carry ammo regularly, so it stays fresh.
 
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