12ga Birdshot cast into slug/ball

[G.Mitchell]

I have tried searching here and on the "ammo" forum but can't find the specifics I am after... There are a few threads on this topic but nothing specific.

I have been trying a variety of alternative methods to make birdshot into a slug. I have tried cut/ring shells and wax added to the shot. Both work well enough but are lacking refinement.

Eventually I will get a proper reloading setup. However, for now I am looking for a bit of an improvised solution.

I have done a great deal of reading about taking the shot out and melting it into a slug/ball. Some claim 7/8oz some 1oz, some say ball, others slug.

This is what I need to know. What is the exact mold I need to pour a slug that can then be used with a standard birdshot wad/cup... I don't want to mess with the powder or shotcup.

My goal is a setup that will allow me to cut the crimp off a standard bulk birdshot round; melt/mold a slug/ball; then insert it back into the standard cartridge with standard wadding/cup; then seal with some form of glue.

I guess what I need to know is what mold to get that I can slide the slug/ball back into a standard shotcup.

A link to a Canadian supplier would be great too.

Thanks.

 

[Grove]

I use the Lee 1oz slug mold and they fit perfectly into birdshot wad's.

I just use a hot glue gun on the top of the slug to keep it seated and they shoot fine.

That is exactly what you are trying to do yeah?

 

[Spawn-Inc]

where about in Canada?

a lee slug mold will work for what you want if your trying to keep costs down, as well as a ladle. something like this Link.

make sure the mold is plenty warm (torch) then dump a shells worth of birdshot into the ladle to melt and pour into the mold.

otherwise for sake of speed, get a cheap pot to melt several shells worth of bird shot in one shot.

watch this set of 4 videos.
[youtube]XQGVf5_dtwA[/youtube]

 

[G.Mitchell]

I am in Grande Prairie AB.

I thought that it was the 1 Oz Slug Mold... http://leeprecision.com/1-oz-slug-mold.html

I saw the ladle at my local Wholesale Sports. No luck on the mold though.

 

[Grove]

http://www.budgetshootersupply.ca/frame.cfm?ItemID=12&CategoryID=0

Lot cheaper then Nosale sports. Henry is A+ to deal with, he ordered me a mold and 3 weeks later I had it since NOBODY had these in stock and there was no order at nosale for them.

 

[LUTNIT]

Depends on the wad used in the original shell. If it has ribs on the inside it wont work well with any slug or ball.
Balls are quite inaccurate and a foster type slug is significantly better. A ball loaded into a shotgun is pretty much a smooth bore musket that has an effective range of 50 yards if you're lucky. I believe old muskets could barely hit a 2x2 yard target at 50 yards consistently.

I've tried seating cast slugs back into target load shells and they performed horribly. At 25 yards there was as much as 4-8" of drop from point of aim due to the terribly low muzzle velocity. Factory slugs or handloaded slugs are closer to 2-4" of drop at 25 yards. The accuracy of target-conversions was also no better than wax slugs where as proper velocity slugs (1200-1600fps) are much more accurate for whatever reason. This was from a test of 25 target to slug converted shells and about 350 handloaded full power slugs.

The advantages over wax slugs at these low velocities is pretty minimal but the amount of work is quite a bit more. I would stick with wax slugs for target shell conversions.

One alternative I saw a video on YouTube about was to use heavy long range bird loads; the kind that come in high brass hulls. These have a lot more powder and can produce adequate velocities compared to factory slugs. Just make sure you aren't loading them with a heavier payload than they originally had.

As an aside don't load wax slugs to too high a velocity. I tried pushing wax slugs to 1500fps (factory 1oz slugs are advertised at ~1600fps but in truth are closer to 1450fps out of an 18" barrel) and they just break up as they leave the barrel and scatter like bird shot.

 

[G.Mitchell]

Anyone find a good brand and shot to get a decent point of impact similar to standard slugs?

If I need to buy top quality birdshot to then make slugs then the cost savings advantage goes down.

 

[LUTNIT]

I have found no difference between my slugs cast from Hummason birdshot or wheel weights. Both are a hard alloy that I water drop to make even harder. My only source for wheel weights at the moment is a small garage a friend works at that is fairly low volume; only about 30lbs every 3 months (including scrap steel.)

Last weekend I was actually testing some new loads I developed for Lee 1oz cast slugs. I was shooting factory Winchester Super-X 1oz slugs into ~2" groups at 25 yards off hand. My handloaded slugs into ~2.5" groups at the same. Only 10 of each in two 5-shot groups so the extra 0.5" may be me. Previously I've gotten my cast slugs to shoot the same groups as factory slugs.

The Winchesters where advertised at 1600fps but out of my 18" 870 they chronied ~1450fps.
My handloaded slugs chronied as high as 1610fps out of the same gun but those loads had significantly higher recoil. I can get my slugs shooting ~1400fps with noticeably less recoil than the factory ~1450fps slugs.

 

[antiqueguy]

Depends on the wad used in the original shell. If it has ribs on the inside it wont work well with any slug or ball.
Balls are quite inaccurate and a foster type slug is significantly better. A ball loaded into a shotgun is pretty much a smooth bore musket that has an effective range of 50 yards if you're lucky. I believe old muskets could barely hit a 2x2 yard target at 50 yards consistently.

I've tried seating cast slugs back into target load shells and they performed horribly. At 25 yards there was as much as 4-8" of drop from point of aim due to the terribly low muzzle velocity. Factory slugs or handloaded slugs are closer to 2-4" of drop at 25 yards. The accuracy of target-conversions was also no better than wax slugs where as proper velocity slugs (1200-1600fps) are much more accurate for whatever reason. This was from a test of 25 target to slug converted shells and about 350 handloaded full power slugs.

The advantages over wax slugs at these low velocities is pretty minimal but the amount of work is quite a bit more. I would stick with wax slugs for target shell conversions.

One alternative I saw a video on YouTube about was to use heavy long range bird loads; the kind that come in high brass hulls. These have a lot more powder and can produce adequate velocities compared to factory slugs. Just make sure you aren't loading them with a heavier payload than they originally had.

As an aside don't load wax slugs to too high a velocity. I tried pushing wax slugs to 1500fps (factory 1oz slugs are advertised at ~1600fps but in truth are closer to 1450fps out of an 18" barrel) and they just break up as they leave the barrel and scatter like bird shot.

i like too kee my slugs around 1300fps with a pure lead slug at that velocity i get more penatration then a factory rifled slug at 1600fps because the slug stays soild and does not brake up like if you would push it faster

.690 rounds balls can be really accurate if loaded right and also work well on 4x4 post

you dont need to hot rod a .690+ bullet

 

[Grove]

As an aside don't load wax slugs to too high a velocity. I tried pushing wax slugs to 1500fps (factory 1oz slugs are advertised at ~1600fps but in truth are closer to 1450fps out of an 18" barrel) and they just break up as they leave the barrel and scatter like bird shot.

Hot glue slugs hold together FAR better then waxers, give them a try if you haven't already.

 

[LUTNIT]

i like too kee my slugs around 1300fps with a pure lead slug at that velocity i get more penatration then a factory rifled slug at 1600fps because the slug stays soild and does not brake up like if you would push it faster

I use hard alloys and water drop them from the mould. Factory slugs at 1450fps (1600fps is just advertised) break up when they hit steel. My cast slugs deform and hold together. I've never done a true penetration test with them though; should do that some day to figure out how they perform. No way they penetrate more than my 500gr hard cast 45-70 bullets though.

Hot glue slugs hold together FAR better then waxers, give them a try if you haven't already.

I've heard that but never tried it. I only use wax slugs for low velocity plinking anyway so it works well enough for me. Maybe if I get bored this winter I will give it a shot though (pun intended).

 

[Grove]

The hot glues really hit with some thump, the wad itself stays with the slug and created a giant mushroom on impact.

 

[antiqueguy]

I use hard alloys and water drop them from the mould. Factory slugs at 1450fps (1600fps is just advertised) break up when they hit steel. My cast slugs deform and hold together. I've never done a true penetration test with them though; should do that some day to figure out how they perform. No way they penetrate more than my 500gr hard cast 45-70 bullets though.


I've heard that but never tried it. I only use wax slugs for low velocity plinking anyway so it works well enough for me. Maybe if I get bored this winter I will give it a shot though (pun intended).

im using range scrap (pretty soft) but they hold together better then factory slug out of a normal hunting barrel length and ive seen one go through a WT deer

 

[G.Mitchell]

So glue/wax would be a better solution to recasting birdshot into slugs? Better price/expediency or better performance wise?

 

[Wolf@TS]

I use hard alloys and water drop them from the mould. Factory slugs at 1450fps (1600fps is just advertised) break up when they hit steel. My cast slugs deform and hold together. I've never done a true penetration test with them though; should do that some day to figure out how they perform. No way they penetrate more than my 500gr hard cast 45-70 bullets though.

I cast mine the same way.
Here my video on just such a test, Lee 1oz slug is loaded into a Federal 1 1/8oz heavy game load.
You can also see my other videos on making them.

 

[G.Mitchell]

Picked up my ladle and ordered my slug casting mold. Already tearing open some bird shot in preparation.

This will be fun.

 

[Spawn-Inc]

Picked up my ladle and ordered my slug casting mold. Already tearing open some bird shot in preparation.

This will be fun.

let us know how it goes, pictures of course!

 

[G.Mitchell]

I cast mine the same way.
Here my video on just such a test, Lee 1oz slug is loaded into a Federal 1 1/8oz heavy game load.
You can also see my other videos on making them.

I watched your how to make video and I have a question.

How much of the crimp do you turn into a roll crimp?

I measured a few of mine and I have approx 0.200" from the edge down into the shell for my rolled crimp. I basically cut the standard crimp in half or so after opening it up.

Does that sound about right to you?

What forces a roll crimp open? The shot cup? The slug?

 

[G.Mitchell]

Here are what I dub a hybrid crimp, this is a star crimp cut in half once opened then folded back into the shell just until it rest on the slug

I fired a box of these and got good clean burn and a consistent recoil

The wad/cup engaged the slug very well

I am pleased with the results, once some of the snow is gone I will get back out with a target and get some accuracy results.

Thanks to all of you sharing your knowledge.

 

[Ganderite]

I do not know what mold makes these:

They are small enough to fit inside the plastic petals. They group 2" at 50 yards with a smoothbore.

I don't have the mold. i bought the slugs at a gunshow.

If you don't reload, you could take cheap target loads, pry the mouth open, dump the shot and slip one of these slugs in.