12ga buckshot reloading questions

[Spawn-Inc]

Got a new shot gun and don't like the high prices of buckshot.

So looking to start loading for it, just have a couple questions.

1. I have federal hulls from the 175 ammo cans. 2¾" 9 pellet. So its high brass. I can't seem to find loading data for them with 700x powder.

2. Powder amounts seem to change a decent amount pending hulls and wads, does it really make that much of a difference?

3. What type of wads work best? Are there specific buckshot ones or can I use lead shot wads. I bought some 2¾" with 1⅛oz # 7½ shot shells and basically swapped the wad for the one in a federal round.

4. When casting for buckshot I understand pure lead is best?

5. Do you need filler/buffer? When I switched the hull from the target load to buckshot I packed them in groups of 3 by 3 high. For 9 total.


With all that being said, it will be shot out of a jw 2000 with 12" barrels and no choke at paper only. Not looking for hunting rounds or anything like that.


Thanks!

 

[luke s]

for just paper practice, you can substitute an equivalent weight of buckshot for shot.

1. not sure what the hull is that comes with the federal buckshot, would need to ID this first before reloading.

2. shotshell reloading is very component specific, you should stick to published loads apparently because it is hard to tell if the load is at a too high pressure (no signs like on a metallic cartridge)..... that being said, I have varied powder amounts (reduced load by 10%) with great results

3. you should match the primer/wad/hull to a published/tested load

4. when casting, pure lead is probably best if you shoot through choked guns, but seeing as its from a 12" no choke barrel, it wont matter

5. for range shooting fun, you will not need buffer

 

[LUTNIT]

I have always hated hunting down all the specific components for a given load so I just develop my own with what I can find locally. Take a similar load you have data for and reduce it by 25% or so and start going up. It is true it is harder to find overpressure signs in shotshells but there are some things to look for.

1. Shells being hard to extract. This can happen with magnum factory ammo as well so if one sticks once in a while you aren't at a dangerous threshold but you are getting there; back off a few grains.

2. Primers inverting. If your primers start to stick outwards instead of having an indent from the firing pin (meaning they are blown back out) then STOP! You are most likely in a dangerous pressure area.

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A few more things I noticed:
-Only reload hulls that have load data available regardless of which internal components you use. Not all hulls are safe to reload and some can have separation problems where the walls of the hull comes off the base/basewad and can lodge in the barrel. Your next shot could burst your barrel.

-A lot of load data is specific to components not only because of burn rate/shape but also for volume. The shell can't be too empty or too full before the crimp or it could compress the powder too much (bad) or allow it to move around and not burn right (also bad.) A certain volume of a certain powder, with a specific wad that takes up a certain amount of space, and a specific amount of shot made from a specific material all take up known volumes of space and altering it can screw up powder compression.

-different primers ignite at different speeds regardless of if they are all "normal" or "magnum". Swapping a primer alone can change pressure so if you do that start from 25% reduced loads again and work up. I usually work up 2gr at a time where as with rifle I go 0.5gr at a time.

-with a 12" barrel you are going to be able to fire some really hot loads and not get any more performance. The extra energy will be expended in a huge muzzle flash and lots of noise.

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As for buffer and shot stacking I did a pile of tests in that regard.
-2x4 stacks (2 pellets per stack, 4 layers) group better than 3x3 stacks
-2x4 stacks fit in shotcups where 3x3's need wads without cups or it can jam trying to go into the chamber sometimes
-2x4 stacks give more muzzle energy with the same powder charge (my guess is the cup acts as an extra gas seal)
-buffer (cream of wheat in my case) has nearly no effect on 3x3 stacks but greatly improves 2x4 stacks
-buffered 2x4 stacks group significantly better than buffered or non-buffered 3x3 stacks

As for material I use wheel weights which are harder than lead. The pellets can deform and dent each other during acceleration down the barrel which can throw grouping way off. To improve grouping I find using a harder alloy makes a noticeable difference; especially if you aren't using buffer.

These tests where done in a Remington 870 with 18.5" barrel and with a Mossberg 500 with 20" barrel. Both where cylinder bore (no choke.) Both guns repeated the same trends.

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The load I have developed for my use but I give no guarantees if it will work for you safely or not is:
-Remington, Winchester, or Federal high brass hulls or Winchester AA hulls (all the ones I have, have one piece hulls so no separation issues and all have similar enough volume)
-CCI 209M magnum primers
-38gr of Alliant Blue Dot
-WAA12R wads (Claybuster clones since Winchester stopped making them)
-2x4 stacked 00 buck cast in a Lee mould (true .330 cal pellets; some factory "00" buckshot is undersized)
-cream of wheat buffer filled to top of the shot

The Remington shells are crimped and are done but the Winchester and Federal need a drop or two of super glue on the crimp to keep the buffer from falling out (after crimping there is a little hole big enough for the cream of wheat to fall out of). When testing I went up to 42gr of powder but once in a while a shell stuck in the chamber. I backed down to 38gr and it went away. Of course barrel length can greatly effect burn rates so I don't know what will happen in a 12" barrel. I have run these through my 24" barrelled 870 as well without issue.

I have calculated that the cost per shell if I buy lead shot by the bag for $2/lbs to cast the buckshot is $0.37/shell. If I use wheel weights that I get for free (but am running out) they are $0.24/shell.

 

[luke s]

that is just excellent advice above!

I will not reload shells that have a separate basewad, not worth the risk to me

I only swap CCI and Winchester primers, I researched many books/load data and these seem to have very similar pressure data when all other components are the same

I also found that 2x4 tends to be easier to load in a standard shot cup

 

[RePete]

Get yourself the Lyman Shotshell Reloading Handbook. They have diagrams of the different hull. Some hulls are straight walled and others are tapered and require different wads.

For the hulls that you have described and with the powder you have, you require Fed 209A primers, B.P. BPGS, B.P. BP12 wad, two 20ga 1/4" felts under pellets and 12 #1 buckshot.

If you want to use 00 Buck, then there are 3 powders and different primers and remaining components.

I load 00 Buck and slugs. Get the book.

 

[digitalblue]

1. I have federal hulls from the 175 ammo cans. 2¾" 9 pellet. So its high brass. I can't seem to find loading data for them with 700x powder.

First of all, you need to identify the type of hulls you have; cut one of them lengthwise and compare the cross section to a known hull. Without properly identifying them, they're useless... Also, 700X is way to fast for buckshot unless you're willing to do an 8 pellet load.

2. Powder amounts seem to change a decent amount pending hulls and wads, does it really make that much of a difference?

Switching primers can raise pressures as much as 3000 PSI; considering that the SAAMI specs for a 12ga is 11500PSI, there usually isn't much headroom to be blindly modifying load data. Unless you're experienced, don't try modifying anything.

3. What type of wads work best? Are there specific buckshot ones or can I use lead shot wads. I bought some 2¾" with 1⅛oz # 7½ shot shells and basically swapped the wad for the one in a federal round.

Buckshot can be loaded in almost any wad, you just need data for it...

4. When casting for buckshot I understand pure lead is best?

I cast mine out of straight WW and water quench them. They're very hard and don't require buffer to prevent deformation.

5. Do you need filler/buffer? When I switched the hull from the target load to buckshot I packed them in groups of 3 by 3 high. For 9 total.

Adding buffer usually raises pressures, don't do it unless the load data specifies it. What size buckshot are you casting? 00 buck(0.33" dia) usually won't stack layers of 3 inside the shotcup of a wad without bulging the hull. I cast #1 buckshot(0.31" dia) and they stack perfectly inside a shotcup.

 

[easyrider604]

4. When casting for buckshot I understand pure lead is best?

Wheel weight is good. Lyman #2 (5% antimony) is better. But I will use a higher antimony (6-7%) alloy for my next buckshot casting sesssion. Hard buckshot will retain spherical shape better. Pure lead pellets will deform badly due to the high G-forces of being shot out of the barrel. Pattern may be erratic.

Anyways, that's what my research has revealed. See Castboolits.com

 

[Spawn-Inc]

thanks alot for all the info guys!

next time i'm at the store i will pick up the lyman book, $10 i suppose is worth it


i cut one of the federal shells apart, here is the result.

not being sure what i'm looking at but i would guess this is a good hull as it seems to be "one piece" correct?

 

[LUTNIT]

not being sure what i'm looking at but i would guess this is a good hull as it seems to be "one piece" correct?

That is indeed a one piece hull so would be safe to reload. If the sides came down and ended at the bottom and the base wad was a separate piece then you can't be sure how many loads the glue they used will last before it gets potentially dangerous.

It looks like a straight walled hull but you would have to look for load data based on hull measurements and not name. I would feel safe reloading those myself but I develop my own based on published data instead of following published data religiously. I feel what I do is safe (starting at loads reduced by 25%) but some may call it crazy or incredibly dangerous.

I have done some lighter loads with Federal target load hulls that have a fiber base wad and plastic walls but only light target loads and never more than once after the factory load. Never had a problem but I wouldn't want to use them for buckshot or slugs or more than one load past factory.

 

[digitalblue]

i cut one of the federal shells apart, here is the result.

not being sure what i'm looking at but i would guess this is a good hull as it seems to be "one piece" correct?

That's a federal 0.090" basewad hull; there's some blazing fast buckshot data for those hulls on the hodgdon site.

 

[Spawn-Inc]

perfect!

i'm fairly "dangerous" when it comes to reloading for my pistol calibers. i have loaded wooden bullets, glue gun glue bullets, tried making shotshells out of 45acp and so on. based on what i've read and looked at so far i feel comfortable to start reloading the shells. i will do more reading and learn along the way, but i feel fine doing it.

my latest experiment is using a single 000 buck pellet in my 357mag.

 

[LUTNIT]

i'm fairly "dangerous" when it comes to reloading for my pistol calibers. i have loaded wooden bullets, glue gun glue bullets, tried making shotshells out of 45acp and so on. based on what i've read and looked at so far i feel comfortable to start reloading the shells. i will do more reading and learn along the way, but i feel fine doing it.

I've made some pretty crazy shotgun loads as well as some accidents that could have turned out badly. I am a lot more careful and triple check everything now.

Taking controlled risks is one thing but don't do anything too crazy in terms of risks. It isn't worth your fingers/eyes/life.

 

[Spawn-Inc]

I've made some pretty crazy shotgun loads as well as some accidents that could have turned out badly. I am a lot more careful and triple check everything now.

Taking controlled risks is one thing but don't do anything too crazy in terms of risks. It isn't worth your fingers/eyes/life.

indeed, i've had over pressure (changed brand of powder and was lazy about measuring properly) which blew up in my glock, lucky the only thing that was hurt was my ego and the brass. then i had the reverse of not enough powder which wrecked my 1911 barrel.

back to reading!