Kinetic energy is energy that an object has as a result of motion. When the bullet (which has kinetic energy, calculatable by squaring velocity, multipling by the mass of bullet in grains and dividing by a constant of 450400.) strikes and object, any object, even the air it is passing through, it transfers energy to other forms. Example, friction, heat, sound, light, etc....
130 gr TTSX
- Thread starter Gatehouse
- Start date
Because I believe in the performance of heavy bullets going either slow or fast and due to not just following theories/math I need to see actual proof that the performance of the lighter 130gr TSX still penetrates as deep as the heavier bullets at the greater distances before I will believe it.
In other words I need to see the physical proof.
As of now I doubt that the lighter bullet will penetrate as deeply as a 180gr at the greater distances.
Plus it gives you guys something too do now that bear hunting is over for the spring...
Finn Aagaard conducted many of these tests; hundreds I believe.
He tried various test mediums and ended up using wet phone books. He determined it yielded the most consistent results and most closely simulated animal flesh.
When I do my test, I am going to use wet newspaper, simply because it's the easist stuff to get a hold of. I also intend to stress it slightly, but only so that I have an amount of tension in the paper that I can repeat as often as I want.
I will use a torque wrench and apply the same amount to torque to my bullet box every time; something like 10 ft/lbs or something, but I don't know yet. I won't know for sure until I apply force to it and feel how the paper is.
The funny thing is that everybody has their own pet cartridges and bullets and will basically interpret the results to suit their own beliefs.
He tried various test mediums and ended up using wet phone books. He determined it yielded the most consistent results and most closely simulated animal flesh.
When I do my test, I am going to use wet newspaper, simply because it's the easist stuff to get a hold of. I also intend to stress it slightly, but only so that I have an amount of tension in the paper that I can repeat as often as I want.
I will use a torque wrench and apply the same amount to torque to my bullet box every time; something like 10 ft/lbs or something, but I don't know yet. I won't know for sure until I apply force to it and feel how the paper is.
The funny thing is that everybody has their own pet cartridges and bullets and will basically interpret the results to suit their own beliefs.
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Never until your test have I seen performance like you got in your test and I still can't believe that it would be able to retain the deep penetration at the further distances.
Just won't believe it until I see it I guess...
Camp Cook, did you see this link? This is about the best written report on bullet expansion and penetration that I have read. There are several examples of lighter bullets out-penetrating heavier, higher sectional density bullets.
I think it should be required reading for all hunters and ballistic masturbators.
http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/methods.html
I think it should be required reading for all hunters and ballistic masturbators.
http://www.rathcoombe.net/sci-tech/ballistics/methods.html
I've used wet and dry paper. Wet paper is probably closer to flesh, but it's still just a medium and not the real thing. Wet paper gives impressive wound channels.
I[m too lazy to do wet paper for the most part. Need too much paper.
That's why it's importqant to show some pictures and give the raw data. Let people make up thier own mind... IN this case I had no real preconcieved notions, since the only time I've used a 130 gr Bullet in anythign was a .270....I really didn 't expect the 130gr bullet to hold together or penetrate liek it did.
I[m too lazy to do wet paper for the most part. Need too much paper.
That's why it's importqant to show some pictures and give the raw data. Let people make up thier own mind... IN this case I had no real preconcieved notions, since the only time I've used a 130 gr Bullet in anythign was a .270....I really didn 't expect the 130gr bullet to hold together or penetrate liek it did.
- Location
- Vancouver Island BC
I like what they say about the 7mm Mauser and other "modest" velocity cartridges,they worked 100 or more years ago and still work today. The writing about premium bullets was no surprise to anyone who has ever shot a Nosler Partition and the big frontal area of cast bullets was also no surprise. A long and very well written article with many different types of bullets used.
Clearly their homework was done...
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
The test medium I prefer is wet drill mud (bentonite) because it is easy to use (although messy). When the consistency is correct, it holds the wound cavity shape very well for measurement, and the fluid content allows bullets which rely on hydraulic action for expansion to function. Because the test medium is so consistent, the results from a small test sample mean much more than an equally small sample of actual game kills. While we depend on bullets to kill game, game has proven to be a poor test medium for bullets because the range, angle, bullet placement, and disposition of the beast all bring the results into question. Few of us would have the resources or enthusiasm to stake out 100 animals of similar size and weight so that they could be shot precisely the same way each time. That sort of scientific zeal has not occurred since the days of Thompson-Lagard when human cadavers were hung in warehouses and shot with everything from slingshots to machine guns. Bullet manufacturers in RSA have the resources to test bullets on animals, but it's unclear if the results are more useful than shooting at inanimate test medium.
Loads can simulate long range performance - or lack there of
The X's tend to have longer shank lengths than some lead core premiums
Expansion which causes the bullet's center of gravity to move forward does make the bullet more stable during penetration, provided that the expansion is not so complete that there is no shank left and the bullet becomes a flat projectile. A bullet needs to be linear for rotation to aid stability. The pic of Gate's 130 gr X is a good example of a bullet that has fully expanded and will maintain straight line penetration. There appears to be some dissension among bullet makers as to how much shank needs to be left, some say a third others two thirds of the bullet's original length. Ballisticians call this "Conservation of Angular Momentum" and consider it the key to performance of expanding bullets.
An interesting aside to this is that I recently discovered that the rate of rotation affects the ultimate penetration of the bullet. Given two identical bullets, the one with the higher rate of rotation is subject to less torque when it contacts the target material. I tend to prefer fast twist barrels, but I wouldn't of thought that they would provide an advantage to the terminal performance of the bullet.
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
CC, I believe that the penetration of the light bullet will remain the equal of the heavy bullet within normal hunting ranges, I will however concede certain realities. The 130 gr bullet requires higher velocity to penetrate as deeply as the 180, and even when bullets are of the same weight, the faster bullet looses velocity at a faster rate than does the slower bullet. A lighter bullet may well loose it's velocity faster. I just did as comparison on JBM giving the 130 3500 and the 180 3000 fps. The 130 gr bullet retains 75% of it's velocity at 300 yards (2615 fps) while the 180 retains 82% (2455 fps) at the same range. Based on that, it appears that as range increases the gap between the penetration of the lighter bullet and the heavier one will widen in favour of the heavier bullet. Out to 300 yards though, the result is a dead animal.
Not arguing that the animal would or wouldn't be dead I see that penetration on a smaller animal would be sufficient I'm more thinking that if the lighter bullet hit any resistance like bone it would not get the job done as well as the heavier bullet.
I have also been in a search for new bullets for my 300RUM & 375RUM and had settled on a 30 cal 200gr & 375 cal 300gr Swift A-Frames but due to this thread I am thinking that I need to re-look at this and consider lighter Barnes/Nosler non-lead bullets.
I have also been in a search for new bullets for my 300RUM & 375RUM and had settled on a 30 cal 200gr & 375 cal 300gr Swift A-Frames but due to this thread I am thinking that I need to re-look at this and consider lighter Barnes/Nosler non-lead bullets.
troutseeker
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Prince George, BC
So... Anyone tried some in a .308? And who has them boolits in stock???
Troutseeker
Troutseeker
For ####s and giggles, I loaded
150gr Hornady at 3100fps
125 Nosler Ballistic Tip at 3500fps
Hornady made 9" of penetration, with core speration (although the core was in the jacket when I found it, and fell out) Not much left of the bullet,it was flattened...
BT made 6" of penetration, but couldn't find it. Big wound channel, but the whole thing was gone. I guess I could find the rear end if I wanted to spend more time, but after 15 minutes I gave up
150gr Hornady at 3100fps
125 Nosler Ballistic Tip at 3500fps
Hornady made 9" of penetration, with core speration (although the core was in the jacket when I found it, and fell out) Not much left of the bullet,it was flattened...
BT made 6" of penetration, but couldn't find it. Big wound channel, but the whole thing was gone. I guess I could find the rear end if I wanted to spend more time, but after 15 minutes I gave up
