I was just wondering what others were finding for accuracy from their carbines. Currently I am a bit underwhelmed with mine as I'm only getting 3-4" groups at 100yds off a bench. My rifle is a RRA with 14.5" bbl chambered in 5.56 with I believe a 1:9 twist. Topped off with a Millet 1-4 scope. I have been shooting the 55gn Winchester .223. I will probably shoot a box of AE tactical for comparison and help establish a baseline for factory loads, but plan on handloading right away now I have a pile of empty brass.
14.5" AR-15 acuracy
- Thread starter Gary D
- Start date
I'm using an LMT 10.5 inch AR. It sprays around all over the place and I'm using an Eotech 557 with magnifier. The problem? Factory ammo. It's designed to kill and seeing that the human head is the size of a melon, good enough for groups.
If you want precision, gotta get a .223 rifle that is either bolt action or use a scope with your AR. That's my opinion. I've seen excellent groupings with my 16" Bushmaster AR... that is also equipped with a scope.
If you want precision, gotta get a .223 rifle that is either bolt action or use a scope with your AR. That's my opinion. I've seen excellent groupings with my 16" Bushmaster AR... that is also equipped with a scope.
Try a bunch of different factory ammunition, if possible, and you might get it down to 2MOA...
Handloads, if you're fortunate, my hover around the magic 1MOA, but don't bet on it.
As noted, rack grade AR's are never going to impress you with their accuracy.
Often times, the trigger is also not helping things, and a higher magnification scope is beneficial.
Handloads, if you're fortunate, my hover around the magic 1MOA, but don't bet on it.
As noted, rack grade AR's are never going to impress you with their accuracy.
Often times, the trigger is also not helping things, and a higher magnification scope is beneficial.
Accuracy
As most have already stated, your AR is not a benchrest gun. Also, the ammunition that you are using, or planning to try, is only spec'ed to achieve 2 to 4 moa accuracy, so it doesn't matter how accurate your rifle is, or how good your scope is.
Handloading will (should) bring the group size down. but using heavier (actually longer) bullets in a 1 in 9 twist barrel may make the groups larger. Try a few in your rifle though, as each one is different, so who knows? You will probably be better off trying lighter bullets, say 50 to 64 grains with a 1 in 9 twist.
A better scope may help with seeing the target better, but it won't make the rifle more accurate. Also, you should be shooting 10 shot groups to get a more realistic picture of your AR's accuracy.
Regards.
Mark
As most have already stated, your AR is not a benchrest gun. Also, the ammunition that you are using, or planning to try, is only spec'ed to achieve 2 to 4 moa accuracy, so it doesn't matter how accurate your rifle is, or how good your scope is.
Handloading will (should) bring the group size down. but using heavier (actually longer) bullets in a 1 in 9 twist barrel may make the groups larger. Try a few in your rifle though, as each one is different, so who knows? You will probably be better off trying lighter bullets, say 50 to 64 grains with a 1 in 9 twist.
A better scope may help with seeing the target better, but it won't make the rifle more accurate. Also, you should be shooting 10 shot groups to get a more realistic picture of your AR's accuracy.
Regards.
Mark
- Location
- big sky country
Barrel length does not affect accuracy. There is some evidence that longer barrels are even less accurate because they tend to flex more.
See the fourth talking point below:
http://www.6mmbr.com/barrelfaq.html#24642
See the fourth talking point below:
http://www.6mmbr.com/barrelfaq.html#24642
I would like to see the type of target you are shooting.
Lots of people are trying to group on targets that they cannot see clearly or not suitable for the optic recticles they are using.
Marksmanship principle - consistent sight picture!
Lots of people are trying to group on targets that they cannot see clearly or not suitable for the optic recticles they are using.
Marksmanship principle - consistent sight picture!
Thanks for the responses so far, my intention is not for some whizz bang sub MOA bench gun. To the contrary, stock simple and as close to milspec as I can get (I'd like an Elcan but can afford the Millet and thus the 1-4x). But I do want to know what to reasonably expect and what this firearm is capable of if I am to be able to discern where my own skills are at. The CF expects groupings 100mm(4") to 150mm (6") at 100m prone so that doesn't leave a lot of room for error if I'm getting only 4" off a bench.
The targets I am using have a large orange cross with 1"grid, and are very visible.
The targets I am using have a large orange cross with 1"grid, and are very visible.
The AR platform is capable of very respectable accuracy.
I have two uppers for the rifle I shoot in Sevice Conditions competition. Neither has a barrel known to be of match grade. One barrel was machined out of a $100 1:8 Brand X blank. The other has a take-off Stevens 200 1:9 sporter grade barrel. Either will group under 2moa with good ammunition, using 5X scopes, shooting off the magazine. RRA lower. A2 butt. 15 minute trigger job.
As GT suggested, use an aiming mark that allows a crisp sight picture.
Try some 69gr ammunition.
Focus on firing clean shots.
I'd be surprised if your groups do not shrink noticably.
I have two uppers for the rifle I shoot in Sevice Conditions competition. Neither has a barrel known to be of match grade. One barrel was machined out of a $100 1:8 Brand X blank. The other has a take-off Stevens 200 1:9 sporter grade barrel. Either will group under 2moa with good ammunition, using 5X scopes, shooting off the magazine. RRA lower. A2 butt. 15 minute trigger job.
As GT suggested, use an aiming mark that allows a crisp sight picture.
Try some 69gr ammunition.
Focus on firing clean shots.
I'd be surprised if your groups do not shrink noticably.
- Location
- Virden, MB
With tuned handloads I get consistent sub MOA groups out to 300 yards from my 14.5" barrel. Factory ammo plain sucks, but is more than good enough for what most of us do with our rifles.
What is the recticle and exact size of the reticle on this millet scope? It is not about visibility - but the ability to repeat consistent sight picture by your brain's ability to relate the recticle to the target.
In general, those orange crosses are only good for black fine cross hair on a hunting rifle scope. You wont be getting result by trying to shoot a 1/4 inch thick orange cross hair with a 2 MOA dot.
12.5 woa stanless .223 wyde chamber ,With a 1.5-5 falcon menace it was about 2 . When I switched to a 5-15 it shrunk to around one with factory ammo at 100. I would agree with others that the optics and target play a big part . With federal match it's sub moa if I have a good day . I would like to get a press and load my own at $30 a box the match stuff is more than I want to spend. I'm really impressed with the Timney trigger , But I don't think it helped shrink my group size any ... A couple thousand rounds of American eagle brought the groups from around 4 down to sub moa with good ammo . For me it was optics practice and better ammo that brought the groups down . Probably more practice than anything
gushulak
CGN frequent flyer
I have a free floated 14.5 under a DD rail. I can consistantly get groups under 2MOA with the right factory ammo.
With 5.56mm 77gr. OTM's I can sometimes pull off a 1MOA group at a hundred yards from the bench.
I am using an EOTech optic, out to 200 yards I am fairly consistant.
All depend on the ammo you use. Most military ammo is 2-4MOA as mentioned, some like 5.56 Tap and the 77gr. loads in 5.56 are stellar performers.
I am using a Sabre Defence M4 with a 1 in 7 twist rate.
With 5.56mm 77gr. OTM's I can sometimes pull off a 1MOA group at a hundred yards from the bench.
I am using an EOTech optic, out to 200 yards I am fairly consistant.
All depend on the ammo you use. Most military ammo is 2-4MOA as mentioned, some like 5.56 Tap and the 77gr. loads in 5.56 are stellar performers.
I am using a Sabre Defence M4 with a 1 in 7 twist rate.
Greentips: the scope I have on it is a 1-4x24 Millet DMS-1 with a 1MOA donut-dot reticle (typically I don't use the illumination). target is nearly identical to the Champion 100yd insite targets.
I'm sure more practice is key (it always is, thus why I bought the rifle), but I know I can manage 2"-3" groups with an abused C7A2, shooting prone supported doing the PWT1.
I'm eager to hear more thoughts, and experiences. I will likely try a couple boxes of other factory ammo for a more consistent baseline while researching some handloads, and then get to handloading next month.
I'm sure more practice is key (it always is, thus why I bought the rifle), but I know I can manage 2"-3" groups with an abused C7A2, shooting prone supported doing the PWT1.
I'm eager to hear more thoughts, and experiences. I will likely try a couple boxes of other factory ammo for a more consistent baseline while researching some handloads, and then get to handloading next month.
Bolivar
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
My 14.5 inch Norc is getting about 1.5 inch at 100 yards with hand loaded 68 Gn BTHP. Shot it out to 400 on the weekend, prone resting on the mag. I kept all 10 inside the outer ring. I think that works out to about 3 MOA.
Ar180shooter
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ottawa, ON
Ammo makes a huge difference. Shooting American Eagle out of my Swiss Arms, I'm lucky if I can get 2.5MOA. Using handloads, I can hold close to MOA (sub MOA if I'm doing well that day).
I just took a look at that target. Think about this - you are trying to impose a 1" circle onto a cross hair. The only thing that allows you to center your dot are the orange tips of the cross.
Here is my suggestion, get a typical 5" or 6" pistol bullseyes target. My own rude of thumb, always zero round/dot reticle on a round target that is way bigger than the dot. If you cannot see that your dot is in the center of the target, you cannot hit it in the center.
