15,000 years ago..

MiG25, I think you need to go and reread my post. The surviving large herbivores are the ones that evolved in Asia with human hunting pressure for quite some time: the moose, caribou, elk, etc. . .

There are expections though, like the Bison.
 
Mauser98 said:
Part V of the 'Human Jouney' made some good points

There's a theory that a large astroid broke up over North America resulting in multiple hits. Huge fires that may have wiped out vast areas of food and causing the decimation of animals. Ancient man may have finished the job on mega-fauna. Theory is backed up by sub-surface areas of ash that is the right age.

Other stuff
Human bones have been found that pre-date Clovis by 1000 years. Locations are Santa Rosa Island off California and in southern Chile. These bones are roughly 14000 years old.

Compelling evidence that ancient man populated the west coast of the Americas first then spread eastward. The route was Siberia-Western Alaska then down the coast. The theory that man made his way through the glaciers of N. America doesn't hold up.

Fasinating stuff.
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Don't know if you saw it but there was a recent documentary on a dig at Snowmass where they have found what has been theorized as human weapon marks on bones. The kicker is that the bones are 40,000 years old, 30,000 years older than Clovis.

Still very debatable, but food for thought.
 
G P said:
MiG25, I think you need to go and reread my post. The surviving large herbivores are the ones that evolved in Asia with human hunting pressure for quite some time: the moose, caribou, elk, etc. . .

There are expections though, like the Bison.
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partly true. bison, whitetail deer, blacktail deer, pronghorn, and mountain goat have all been in north america much longer.

coincidentally or not, they are all ruminants. the horse, native to north america, is not and it became extinct, but survived after migrating into lands where there where people.
 
c-fbmi said:
The Giant Shortfaced Bear was almost identicle to our modern coastal grizzly in it's largest form. The 375 is considered excellent medicine for these boys so I think a 500NE might be considered adequate, or overkill !!! Not many shoot the 500 NE well enough to consider it as a good defensive firearm.
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Well, 1500lb Grizzly bears aren't the norm. Sure they do turn up once in a while, male Grizzlies don't normally get to be that big (400-800lbs average if I remember correctly, according to Wikipedia, lol).

Also, I'm sure that if 1800lbs for the Giant Short Faced Bear is within the upper limit of the average weight, some would have been much bigger.
 
canvasback said:
Don't know if you saw it but there was a recent documentary on a dig at Snowmass where they have found what has been theorized as human weapon marks on bones. The kicker is that the bones are 40,000 years old, 30,000 years older than Clovis.

Still very debatable, but food for thought.
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-the skeletons found are all spread around, mixed up, no one whole skeleton was found
-area is known for land slides

not too hard to imagine that once of twice the whlole area got shifted, with bones and stones grinding eachother in a washmachine fashion, leaving 'tool' marks all over them
 
rhino519 said:
-the skeletons found are all spread around, mixed up, no one whole skeleton was found
-area is known for land slides

not too hard to imagine that once of twice the whlole area got shifted, with bones and stones grinding eachother in a washmachine fashion, leaving 'tool' marks all over them
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Not arguing with you but there are three distinct levels of fossils being uncovered. It is the middle section that seems, according to the archeologists and geologists, to have been subject to landslides. However, if I recall correctly that is where the bones with the marks have been recovered from. Fairly complete skeletons have been recovered from other levels.

As I said, still very debatable, but interesting nonetheless.

It now seems clear that Clovis isn't the beginning of man's habitation of North and South America.
 
i got to do some more research on the site, just cought a short clip, didnt mentioned any thing about three distinct layers, only that bones found that far were all mixed up with no whole sceletons present

if proven right it really really is very interesting notion
 
all good points and a nice diverge from normal cgn pissing wars. So i'll through in my $.02, i agree with a population explosion and the resulting increase in animal harvest as to the disease there probably was some but im a firm believer in that your immune system is based on your environment so theirs was probably quite strong that being said life expectancy was probably only 20 to 25 years (might explain why were so umm "busy" in our teens) and with little or no healing skills almost everything could be fatal and to that the fact that there was no way to preserve meat. Which could explain how when the mega fauna starting dieing off famine would be wide spread and population would shrink(think rabbit and coyote cycle). after which it would take years decade or even century's to recover during which time bison and other animals took over now that the larger competition was gone or much reduced
 
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