15.7 inch vs 20 inch Diemaco

Matt K said:
Reliability compared to everything. We have participated in the toughest military trials against all other MILSPEC competitors in all the worst conditions and we win. We don't always get the contract and we can't sell to everyone.

Between Colt and Colt Canada we have fired 30 billion rounds through our weapon systems. We know what works and what doesn't. We have achieved a level of system reliability that makes the Canadian made rifles the choice for numerous SF units that could have anything they want.

The rumour that expansion and bleed off gas systems are unreliable is just that - a rumour. The Colt M4 made to the US TDP was four times more reliable than the standard required. The Colt Canada C8 made with the Canadian TDP is more expensive and produced in vastly smaller quantities and meets or exceeds a much higher standard. Every lot of rifles has ten randomly chosen by the government inspector for normal production endurance testing. Each rifle fires 6,000 rounds, half automatic and half semi. The BCG can be lightly lubricated every 2,500 rounds and no other maintenance. We see ZERO stoppages. Design testing goes much further.

The carbine chambers are improved with slightly larger dimensions and some other specifications have been upgraded. These chambers have been in service for decades and are fully certified with all NATO ammunition. The details are proprietary and patented.

There is no rifle on any battlefield that I would drop a C8 to pick up.
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Thanks for all this great information. And I'm not just taking this as a pitch to sell more rifles.
We ordered a 15.7 and a 20 today in the green furniture. Can't wait to see them. My son doesn't care what anyone says about the 20 inch. That's what he is currently issued and that is what he wants. He won't even think about the carbine. On the other hand, I've always wanted one and I'm very happy to see these are currently available.
 
r34skyline said:
Is this an improvement from the c7 rifle chamber?

So these trials that you guys crushed was the c7 in any of them? How does the 20" compare? I am reading high praise for the c8 but nothing about the c7.
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We call it an improved carbine chamber. The normal 5.56 rifle chamber is for a rifle. The rifle works just fine. Traditionally a carbine with it's shorter gas system, faster unlocking, higher system pressures and smaller dwell time did not work anywhere near as well as a rifle.

The 5.56 x 45 mm NATO cartridge was designed for the Minimi light machine gun. The M16 gas length is longer than the Minimi. It therefore functions very well.

On a side note, the C7 barrels we make are used on the C9 (minimi) in Canada. They are more than durable enough to be machine gun barrels.

The carbine gas length is shorter and therefore, historically, did not function as well. The original C8 was not as reliable as the C7. The M16 carbine was not as reliable as the M16. This is where non-standard gas tube lengths and other "improvements" came from. The heavy buffer was not to tune the speed of the BCG, but rather to counteract greater bolt bounce on auto with a heavier barrel.

The C8A2, the SFW and all of the later carbines with the improved chamber are as reliable as any rifle due to the improved chamber and other enhancements. They were reliable enough to win several international trials.
 
Matt K said:
We call it an improved carbine chamber. The normal 5.56 rifle chamber is for a rifle. The rifle works just fine. Traditionally a carbine with it's shorter gas system, faster unlocking, higher system pressures and smaller dwell time did not work anywhere near as well as a rifle.

The 5.56 x 45 mm NATO cartridge was designed for the Minimi light machine gun. The M16 gas length is longer than the Minimi. It therefore functions very well.

On a side note, the C7 barrels we make are used on the C9 (minimi) in Canada. They are more than durable enough to be machine gun barrels.

The carbine gas length is shorter and therefore, historically, did not function as well. The original C8 was not as reliable as the C7. The M16 carbine was not as reliable as the M16. This is where non-standard gas tube lengths and other "improvements" came from. The heavy buffer was not to tune the speed of the BCG, but rather to counteract greater bolt bounce on auto with a heavier barrel.

The C8A2, the SFW and all of the later carbines with the improved chamber are as reliable as any rifle due to the improved chamber and other enhancements. They were reliable enough to win several international trials.
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Roger that. Thank you for the info.

Do you guys provide any training classes for civilians? Or is that a mil/le deal only?
 
r34skyline said:
Roger that. Thank you for the info.

Do you guys provide any training classes for civilians? Or is that a mil/le deal only?
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As of now, the factory training is restricted to Military and Police. We are not against a civilian training program - it is just logistically difficult. I spend about five months of the year on the road. Weekends make the most sense for civilians but they belong to the Supreme Domestic Commander and my junior range apprentice!

I ran an AR15 clinic for members of the Operational Shooting Association, of which we are a member, early this year and it sold out and got great response.

If we get enough interest we can look at adding a weekend course - most likely at MILCUN. That is probably a discussion best continued in our forum though.
 
Matt K said:
As of now, the factory training is restricted to Military and Police. We are not against a civilian training program - it is just logistically difficult. I spend about five months of the year on the road. Weekends make the most sense for civilians but they belong to the Supreme Domestic Commander and my junior range apprentice!

I ran an AR15 clinic for members of the Operational Shooting Association, of which we are a member, early this year and it sold out and got great response.

If we get enough interest we can look at adding a weekend course - most likely at MILCUN. That is probably a discussion best continued in our forum though.
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Last question for you. Is a 14.5 inch gov profile c8a2 style "sa14.5" in the pipeline in the future in higher production numbers?
 
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C8A2 was a heavy barrel.

I'd think about some uppers, but we have no plans to make conventional handguard upper complete rifles.

I'd bet that future production will be IUR versions.
 
Matt K said:
Reliability compared to everything. We have participated in the toughest military trials against all other MILSPEC competitors in all the worst conditions and we win. We don't always get the contract and we can't sell to everyone.

Between Colt and Colt Canada we have fired 30 billion rounds through our weapon systems. We know what works and what doesn't. We have achieved a level of system reliability that makes the Canadian made rifles the choice for numerous SF units that could have anything they want.

The rumour that expansion and bleed off gas systems are unreliable is just that - a rumour. The Colt M4 made to the US TDP was four times more reliable than the standard required. The Colt Canada C8 made with the Canadian TDP is more expensive and produced in vastly smaller quantities and meets or exceeds a much higher standard. Every lot of rifles has ten randomly chosen by the government inspector for normal production endurance testing. Each rifle fires 6,000 rounds, half automatic and half semi. The BCG can be lightly lubricated every 2,500 rounds and no other maintenance. We see ZERO stoppages. Design testing goes much further.

The carbine chambers are improved with slightly larger dimensions and some other specifications have been upgraded. These chambers have been in service for decades and are fully certified with all NATO ammunition. The details are proprietary and patented.

There is no rifle on any battlefield that I would drop a C8 to pick up.
Click to expand...

Matt K:

You've provided wonderful information- thank you.

If I've missed your comment on this, sorry, but....I'm curious, if you could only have one in your personal collection, the 15.7" or the 20", which would it be?

Thanks!
 
nntw said:
Matt K:

You've provided wonderful information- thank you.

If I've missed your comment on this, sorry, but....I'm curious, if you could only have one in your personal collection, the 15.7" or the 20", which would it be?

Thanks!
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That would be a hard one!

I've been around since the Diemaco days when the 15.7 upper was our logo and spent a lot of time with the C8 all over Canada and Europe.

I've spent more time in the Army with the C7A2, though I did carry a C8 on my first tour.

I'd have to say if I could only have one, I'd take the SA20 for service rifle competition - for the extra velocity at the 400 and 500.
 
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