If you are set on a savage and are not interested in dumping 200 rounds in the woods behind your house, go for a 17. The 17 is typically more accutate without having to wade through the myriad of 22 available and will give you all the skills needed to progress to a centerfire should you choose to go there. And really, for a couple of boxes per range session, ammo costs shouldn't be a show stopper.
17 HMR vs .22LR for new shooter
- Thread starter Wilson67
- Start date
.22. Again.
Esp. if actual serious target shooting is going to be your thing.
There are many many more choices in ammunition, many different levels of quality control, with regards to serious accuracy, and many different price points to choose from, from essentially cheap plinking ammo, up to serious, Olympics grade target ammo to choose from.
The HMR, Mach2, and WSM rimfires are about performance, but it's a take it or leave it affair on ammo, as there are far fewer choices, and if your particular gun does not shoot one of those choices well, you are SOL.
Esp. if actual serious target shooting is going to be your thing.
There are many many more choices in ammunition, many different levels of quality control, with regards to serious accuracy, and many different price points to choose from, from essentially cheap plinking ammo, up to serious, Olympics grade target ammo to choose from.
The HMR, Mach2, and WSM rimfires are about performance, but it's a take it or leave it affair on ammo, as there are far fewer choices, and if your particular gun does not shoot one of those choices well, you are SOL.
I use a Lee Loader with my fire formed brass... cost me about $50 a few years ago. A small cheap scale, rubber mallet and a powder trickler is all you really need. works fine.
Also I would call .17hmr a varmint round with only a couple ammo that are expensive for what they are, .22LR on the other hand has probably 40-50 or more options. .223 you can load anything you like all the way from 40-80gr depending on your barrel twist and what you are shooting.
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Do not buy Ruger Precision 22lr.
That said, I have it with with a Vortex Diamondback Tactical FFP scope on it. I was watching the rounds hit the gong at 100M. First time ever seeing a bullet in flight. I can't wait to try it at 300M when the new range opens at my gun club. A lot of YouTubers use CCI Standard Velocity ammo. $7.89 at Cdn Tire in my neck of the woods. I have an A17 but I think the 22 as much as a pain to chamber a rd will be my first choice.
If you're going for distance, you will need a 20 moa rail and a scope with a lot of elevation in the dial.
Cheers.
That said, I have it with with a Vortex Diamondback Tactical FFP scope on it. I was watching the rounds hit the gong at 100M. First time ever seeing a bullet in flight. I can't wait to try it at 300M when the new range opens at my gun club. A lot of YouTubers use CCI Standard Velocity ammo. $7.89 at Cdn Tire in my neck of the woods. I have an A17 but I think the 22 as much as a pain to chamber a rd will be my first choice.
If you're going for distance, you will need a 20 moa rail and a scope with a lot of elevation in the dial.
Cheers.
I strongly agree with this statement. I have several .22s and a .17 HMR. I am teaching my kids to shoot with the .22s. Low cost of ammo, lots of readily available choices and the tiny amount of recoil allows you to develop good trigger control and posture habits
unstableryan
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
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Well, lets see. I have a Chiappa little badger in .22lr, a nice old bolt action Marlin in .22lr, a Cooey model 60, a pair of pretty different 10/22's, a nylon 66 in .22lr and I only have one .17.
I bought this one for turkey hunting:
It is really awesome and you can shoot empty shotgun shells at 200m if there's no real wind. I wouldn't have bought it first though. I would have bought an accurate .22 first.
I bought this one for turkey hunting:
It is really awesome and you can shoot empty shotgun shells at 200m if there's no real wind. I wouldn't have bought it first though. I would have bought an accurate .22 first.
I would agree with the rest. the .22 lr ammo is cheaper and savage has had some poor user reviews from shooter friends of mine. if you're looking for a .22 rifle, Ruger has a great line of affordable rifles and bass pro has some good selections on rifle scopes.
With all due respect, this is not good advice. Dry firing is pulling the trigger on an empty chamber. Only some rimfires can be dry fired. On most dry firing will cause damage to the gun and create a dent near the chamber and causing feeding issues etc. Research your particular gun before attempting. You can get snapcaps or use the right size wall anchors so the firing pin can expend its energy on them instead on the breach face.
On center fires, except for certain single shots, dry firing is generally ok without a snap cap.
Horse poo!
Most CAN be safely dry fired.
Read the frikken instructions. Pretty much every rimfire made in the past sixty or so years, has been built to be safe to dry fire, and most of the ones before that were too.
The ones that are not safe to dry fire on an empty chamber were mostly too frikken cheap to be considered for target shooting, and a very few models were not made with captive firing pins, but they were pretty clearly explained in their respective literature.
There are some out there for sure, but certainly not to an amount where dicking around with drywall screw plugs or so called snap caps, is anything more than a stupid hobby for folks without better things to pass the time with. You want to spend the price of a box of good ammo on a couple dummy shells to destroy while saving your gun from...nothing, sure, go ahead. But don't make out like it's mandatory.
Oh yeah. Aside from that I have not yet seen actual rimfire snap caps available ( read the package, action proving dummies!) the few actual snap caps I HAVE seen, were to prevent damage to hardened parts of fine shotguns (centerfire, coincidentally, whoodathunkit?) from dropping the hammers without a primer to cushion their fall.
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Some rifles can be dry fired without issue. For example, according to the article "Will Dry Firing Damage Rimfire Guns" in American Hunter, July 8, 2011, Ruger says dry firing the 10/22 doesn't cause damage, so too for Henry Repeating Arms, while Smith & Wesson says dry firing can damage rimfires and Browning says the practice won't damage its newer guns. Anschutz says not to do it and for those who want to dry fire train with their Anschutz rifles can use a special dry fire pin. Apparently many Anschutz rimfires with dry firing damage come from countries such as Japan and China where actual shooting is less frequent due to a paucity of ranges. (This is from h t t p s ://www.americanhunter.org/articles/2011/7/8/will-dry-firing-damage-rimfire-guns/ )
The general problem can be two-fold. First, it is a problem if the firing pin repeatedly strikes the barrel or chamber face instead of the rim of the cartridge, it can peen the firing pin leading to misfires and over time it could damage the breechface itself. Many rimfires, however, are designed to ensure that the tip of the firing pin never actually reaches the barrel/chamber, stopping just short of it. When everything is working and the firing pin design works as it should, this is fine. But a second problem potentially arises. Even though the tip stops short of hitting breechface, the firing pin can still be damaged or broken as a result of the shoulder of the firing pin repeatedly slamming into the metal stop inside the bolt itself.
Will occasional dry firing cause damage? No, it won't unless your rifle has a cone breech that relatively easily damaged. For breeches that do have firing pin damage there is a chamber ironing tool that can help mitigate damage. I don't dry fire my rifles. Sometimes when using a repeater I have miscounted the number of shots and dry fired, but I don't loose sleep over that.
My own view is that if dry firing is intentional, the best practice is to use something to absorb the blow of the firing pin. Some shooters use empty casings (but they look an awful lot like they could be live rounds when they are in the chamber). There are purpose made snap caps available in .22LR, but the least expensive and still very effective alternative are the yellow dry wall anchors. They even extract much like casings. I use these whenever I purposely dry fire. I feel it's better to follow such a practice, just to be safe. I don't think I'd jump at buying a rimfire that was advertised as having been dry fired all the time without such provision, even if it was a 10/22.
The general problem can be two-fold. First, it is a problem if the firing pin repeatedly strikes the barrel or chamber face instead of the rim of the cartridge, it can peen the firing pin leading to misfires and over time it could damage the breechface itself. Many rimfires, however, are designed to ensure that the tip of the firing pin never actually reaches the barrel/chamber, stopping just short of it. When everything is working and the firing pin design works as it should, this is fine. But a second problem potentially arises. Even though the tip stops short of hitting breechface, the firing pin can still be damaged or broken as a result of the shoulder of the firing pin repeatedly slamming into the metal stop inside the bolt itself.
Will occasional dry firing cause damage? No, it won't unless your rifle has a cone breech that relatively easily damaged. For breeches that do have firing pin damage there is a chamber ironing tool that can help mitigate damage. I don't dry fire my rifles. Sometimes when using a repeater I have miscounted the number of shots and dry fired, but I don't loose sleep over that.
My own view is that if dry firing is intentional, the best practice is to use something to absorb the blow of the firing pin. Some shooters use empty casings (but they look an awful lot like they could be live rounds when they are in the chamber). There are purpose made snap caps available in .22LR, but the least expensive and still very effective alternative are the yellow dry wall anchors. They even extract much like casings. I use these whenever I purposely dry fire. I feel it's better to follow such a practice, just to be safe. I don't think I'd jump at buying a rimfire that was advertised as having been dry fired all the time without such provision, even if it was a 10/22.
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There is no "right" answer to this question OP, but if money were no object...I suspect allot of 22 fans would spend more time with HMRs. Not LIKE HMR more, just shoot them more. Part of the appeal of 22 certainly IS ammo cost, as long days shooting HMR does add up...where long days shooting 22 is seldom an issue even for frugal shooters like me. I've had 4 or 5 17HMRs over the years, and I'm down to only one. A Marlin 917 I take when I'm fortunate enough to get out west to shoot gophers. In other words, pest/varmint control only...it NEVER gets used for target shooting. As in, ever. I simply can't justify punching paper with a 17HMR but to be honest, I rarely do that with my centerfires either. (17 Hornet, 204 Ruger) Once the loads are right and the scope zeroed, that's pretty much it unless I feel a little practice is in order. Usually early spring warm-up for groundhog season.
I think that if there is any temptation to buy an HMR as a target rifle/weekly shooter...be honest with yourself about how much $ that will cost (2 boxes of 50 blowing a hole in a $50 bill)...and how quick you'll burn through it. If you're like me, 100 rounds is barely worth loading the car for...so yeah, that $50 won't probably cut it. Remember, it's allot of fun.
I'd personally weigh THAT rifle+ammo cost against the idea of buying maybe a better 22, and feeding it even mid-grade 22 ammo like CCI SV.
17HMR Savage/Ruger=$400-ish rifle + ammo @ $20+ a box
22LR Anschutz=$1000-ish rifle + ammo @ $4 a box
I've been down both roads, and have opted for plan B with no regrets. If I'm feeling saucy...I'll buy some caviar-grade 22 to play around with but day-in/day-out...I can plug away with my tuned-up CZ or Anschutz, using CCI ammo all day long, and NEVER wish I was using a 17HMR. For me, when I get up to 17HMR noise/cost...it needs to be in a hunting role to be worthwhile. I also hand load, and can load 17 Hornet for less than the cost of HMR...and the performance is substantially better. (without allot more perceived noise) I don't jump on the "get into reloading" advice thing very often, it's not for everybody...but it IS allot easier than you might think, and not overly expensive to get into. I took a couple of years of rounding-up mostly used gear before I was totally set on the idea.
I think that if there is any temptation to buy an HMR as a target rifle/weekly shooter...be honest with yourself about how much $ that will cost (2 boxes of 50 blowing a hole in a $50 bill)...and how quick you'll burn through it. If you're like me, 100 rounds is barely worth loading the car for...so yeah, that $50 won't probably cut it. Remember, it's allot of fun.
I'd personally weigh THAT rifle+ammo cost against the idea of buying maybe a better 22, and feeding it even mid-grade 22 ammo like CCI SV.17HMR Savage/Ruger=$400-ish rifle + ammo @ $20+ a box
22LR Anschutz=$1000-ish rifle + ammo @ $4 a box
I've been down both roads, and have opted for plan B with no regrets. If I'm feeling saucy...I'll buy some caviar-grade 22 to play around with but day-in/day-out...I can plug away with my tuned-up CZ or Anschutz, using CCI ammo all day long, and NEVER wish I was using a 17HMR. For me, when I get up to 17HMR noise/cost...it needs to be in a hunting role to be worthwhile. I also hand load, and can load 17 Hornet for less than the cost of HMR...and the performance is substantially better. (without allot more perceived noise) I don't jump on the "get into reloading" advice thing very often, it's not for everybody...but it IS allot easier than you might think, and not overly expensive to get into. I took a couple of years of rounding-up mostly used gear before I was totally set on the idea.
Ffs,
Use snap caps or used brass.
I never said dry fire on an empty chamber. This is well known for rimfires so much that I didnt think I needed to mention it.
On my ruger american rimfire, I can even dryfire without anything at all! Designed that way!
I love 17HMR, but it is LOUD. It and 22WMR are comparable to .223 at 155 to 165 db.
22LR sits around 140 db. (Keeping in mind that db is logarithmic, not linear - so, that's a big difference.) All will damage your hearing, but 22LR is easily deadened by muffs/plugs.
I find that 17HMR is less affected by wind at short to mid distances - less so than 22LR.
But, as with all gun questions, I come up with the same answer: Buy both. You need more guns.
22LR sits around 140 db. (Keeping in mind that db is logarithmic, not linear - so, that's a big difference.) All will damage your hearing, but 22LR is easily deadened by muffs/plugs.
I find that 17HMR is less affected by wind at short to mid distances - less so than 22LR.
But, as with all gun questions, I come up with the same answer: Buy both. You need more guns.
easyrider604
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Greater Vancouver, BC
The only rimfire I know for a fact, that’s designed and made to be dry fired safely is the CZ452.
I don’t have a 455 or 457, so can’t speak about them.
In the 452, the firing pin has a shoulder that limits the pin’s forward travel so the tip will never hit the breech face.
I have Savages and Marlins and Annies (64 Action) that do not have this feature. I never intentionally dry fire them as the pin will hit the breechface and I have the peened breechfaces to prove dryfiring will indeed cause damage. Eventually the firing pins will suffer damage as well.
