175 Gr sierra HPBT and varget

Longshot

Longshot

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I have loaded up a bunch of ammo to do some testing.
I'm going to use the ladder method to find the accuracy nodes that are best for my rifle.
I'll be using Norma match brass,Fed 210 match primes and a 175 HPBT.
My test loads go from 41 Gr to 45.5 Gr in .5 grain increments.
The rifle I'll be shooting them out of is a tuned 700 with a 26 in Rock 5R barrel.It has under 1,000 rounds through it.
I'll run them all over the chrony and post the results.
Anyone have any guesses as to where the nodes will be?I see a lot of folks finding thier best accuracy around the 44.5 Gr area.

I may also retry the test with Rl-17 to see if there is any major differences in velocity.
 
From what I have found, 44.4 to 44.6 and right at 46 which is "hot" load. That 46 load sure shoots in the rifles I have tried it in, make sure to work up to the 46 as it is too much in some rifles!
 
For me 44.6 with a coal of 2.848 is the ticket for the TRG. The R5 preferred 44.1 at exactly 2.80 and the Kimber Tactical prefers 168's over N150. I say this to reiterate that all these bloody sticks prefer a different diet LOL ! But, seriously, somewhere around 44 1/2 with Varget and 175 SMK's will usually deliver a pretty good group. A couple of years ago a fellow wrote a fairly detailed article in Handloader magazine detailing what he did to find the most accurate .308 load. Should be findable online.
 
I have a 700 in 5r milspec with 24" barrel. I find that 43grs of varget behind 175 hpbt is the most accurate of the loads I've tried, thats with an overall length of 2.800". I did try 44grs of varget and I find it's getting a little hot. I've heard that loading 44grs or more doesn't really give you any better accuracy just more recoil. More velocity doesn't always mean better grouping.

I've loaded some with 43 grs of varget with 175 hpbt with an overall length of 2.810, but I haven't tried those yet.

On the 6mmBR site some have tried 45grs of reloader 15 behind 175 hpbt. I loaded some but did try those one yet.

Go to this site and read up on this on this subject. www.tobystactical.com the main subject on that site is about the 700 5r milspec, but they also talk about loads.

My two cents


JonnyBender
 
Good stuff guys!
I would have thought that 46 Gr would have been a little too hot...but I guess I'll have a look at how the brass from the 45-45.5 Gr 's look and feel.
 
I use 44.7gr Varget with the bullet touching the lands in my Tikka Master Sporter with a 23 5/8" barrel.

Norma brass
Federal 210M primers
175 SMK
2680fps.
 
With Varget and 175 smks I've had the best results with velocities around 2645fps out of a 24" Krieger 1:10 twist. With that charge my velocities are very consistent and it's a laser at anything 800 yards and under. I've tried stouter loads and accuracy starts to drop off with any increase in velocity. Again....your mileage WILL vary.
 
44.5grains of Varget does the trick in my 700P with 26" barrel and 1:12 twist.

Runs about 2690fps and groups consistently in the .7" range.
 
Tomochan said:
For me 44.6 with a coal of 2.848 is the ticket for the TRG. The R5 preferred 44.1 at exactly 2.80 and the Kimber Tactical prefers 168's over N150. I say this to reiterate that all these bloody sticks prefer a different diet LOL ! But, seriously, somewhere around 44 1/2 with Varget and 175 SMK's will usually deliver a pretty good group. A couple of years ago a fellow wrote a fairly detailed article in Handloader magazine detailing what he did to find the most accurate .308 load. Should be findable online.
Click to expand...

I have the issue for the 308, it is in the December 2008. Bullets used in this article were 165-168gr. FS
 
I use more Varget than all other powders combined and I'm tellin' ya, it is impossible to say. Each batch of Varget has its own personality, and I have seen *significant* differences from batch-to-batch.

If you had told me that you were shooting 32 grains of Varget in a 6BR two years ago, I'd have called you a fool or a liar. Now, it is very common, and is in fact accepted practice!
 
Obtunded said:
I use more Varget than all other powders combined and I'm tellin' ya, it is impossible to say. Each batch of Varget has its own personality, and I have seen *significant* differences from batch-to-batch.

If you had told me that you were shooting 32 grains of Varget in a 6BR two years ago, I'd have called you a fool or a liar. Now, it is very common, and is in fact accepted practice!
Click to expand...


Is this not an oxymoron, a consistent powder that is inconsistent from batch to batch? I'v read similar, numerous times and yet Varget is so popular. I'm asking because I appreciate your oppinion.
 
warrenb said:
Is this not an oxymoron, a consistent powder that is inconsistent from batch to batch? I'v read similar, numerous times and yet Varget is so popular. I'm asking because I appreciate your oppinion.
Click to expand...

Not an oxymoron; but it is a P.I.T.A....!

(any particular batch of powder gives very consistent results from shot to shot ---> so it is a consistent powder. One batch is quite different from the next batch (e.g. 46 max instead of 45 max) ---> they might have perfectly good (or at least justifiable) reasons for this)
 
So I shot my test rounds at the range at 200m.NONE of the groups were that impressive.All these .25 inch groups at 200m must be an internet myth.I think 41 and 44Gr of varget had the most potential.I'll post pics when I get a chance for the more experienced guys to chime in.I seemed to have a bit of an issue with horizontal stringing.The range I shot them on has little to no wind so that isn't a factor.Any ideas what might be causing it?I went to the shop and rebedded it immediately.The old bedding was tight but only went about 1/2 inch in front of the lug.The new bedding now extends around an inch infront.Hopefully that might help sort it out.Any advice is welcome.
 
Oh yeah to add to my previous,I found no signs of pressure at 45.5 grains and think I might give it a shot up to 46.5 at least.I also forgot my chrony so unfortunately no velocity data.
 
Longshot said:
Oh yeah to add to my previous,I found no signs of pressure at 45.5 grains and think I might give it a shot up to 46.5 at least.I also forgot my chrony so unfortunately no velocity data.
Click to expand...

Wow. Is it a factory Remington chamber? (they tend to be quite long-throated) What overall length are you using? Those sure sound like hot loads, it'll be interesting to see what your chrono says when you do get a chance to measure them. Keep going, carefully obviously, and let us know.

BTW "everyone knows" that Sierra 168 Matchkings fall apart after 900 yards and before 1000 yards. The commonly held opinion is that the supersonic->subsonic transition destabilizes the bullet. Another opinion is that it is due to a dynamic instability.

Anyhow, I once set out to test/verify/prove this fact. I shot an end-of-season 1000 yard match with my Palma rifle using 168s loaded with Reloder-15. And ended up shooting my very first 75 (perfect score). Sometimes it is hard to prove a theory....! ;-) (what probably happened is that with what turned out to be a pretty hot load, and a 30" barrel, is that I was probably just a bit too fast in order to observe the result. It would have been more interesting if I could have developed a load with 2750fps or 2800fps muzzle velocity, and tried that...)
 
I'm sure if you drive them hard enough you can get more distance out of them.Last sept at the Canadian Forces Sniper Competition in Ottawa,when you were spotting for guys, you could see the swirl do some erratic things at 700m and beyond and the targets had most shots coming through nose down.It got worst the farther back we went.
I'm sure handloads probably could have taken some of that away but we don't have that optioon.Our match ammo seems to have been downloaded(Velocity) at some point.Possibly for the CISM team from the rumours I've heard.
 
Longshot - factory 168-Sierra-bulleted match ammo (Norma?)? What's the barrel length these days, 24", 26"....?

Were you seeing wonky swirl when shooting at a target that was 700m away? Or was the target further away, and it was at the 700m point where the wonkiness began? Either way, that really is too early to put up with. It's one thing to simply rule out 900m/1000y shooting, but if you have to start calling into question 800m or 700m.....(!!)

It does seem odd that we are still giving our snipers ammo loaded with 168 Sierras. It is the only bullet I know of that has this dynamic instability. I know that the .308 is no longer our ###y sniper rifle, but It would seem pretty straightforward for us to move to ammo using a 175-Sierra. Even if it does mean copying the Americans ;-)

Speaking of Americans, I am told that the AMU had a special load for shooting Sierra 168s at 1000 yards from an M14 (22" barrel). It was simply loaded hot enough to make it there. And, the brass was ruined in one firing. (Sounds a bit desperate...!)
 
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