175 SMK vs Hornady 178 A-max vs Hornady 178 BTHP

I was really impressed with the quality of the AMAX's. I got 250 168's, and out of those, not one was more than .1 gr. over or under. I weighed them on a 505. I got 200 178's, and they were the same.( two of 'em had fingerprints on 'em?) I did segregate the highs and lows, but don't know how important it is.
Which brings me to a question... if you were loading for a match, how much of a weight diff. would you allow. I'm pretty new to all this precision stuff, and .1 seems very little... thanks... C.
 
Roddy said:
Warbird regarding the magazine I have enough room to put a case and a 168 SMK in the mag unassembled with a 1/4" to spare. I am new at this but I don't know why other manufacturers mags are so short.

Here is a factory round:

VcDojb.jpg
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SSG???

The SSG is based off a long action, hence the long mag.
 
I have the Hornady Match 178 HPBT, I bought them to develop for 600+ yards with my 24" 5R 1-10 twist rifle. They are not recommended for 1-12 twist.
 
I shoot them on 1000 yards with CZ 700 M1 26" barely 1:12 twist
the rifle like them seated high, so I single feed them. I have a video shooting 900 and 1000 yards. Will post it.
It's important to try.
Same rifle will shoot 220 gr. Nosler round hunting bullets 1 MOA at 200 yards.
It's fun to play and try stuff.
 
Roddy said:
Yes it's an SSG 3000.

LRJvAG.jpg


I ordered a bunch of mags I am hoping show up next week. They weren't easy to find.
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That is one of the benefits of the SSG. Long rounds fit mag. Even when you rebarrel to something like a 6.5, you can still load them out to past 2.9ish.

I'm sure others would want to know where you found the mags.
 
12" twist will stabilize anything worth shooting from a 308. German Salazar has even shot 200 SMKs from a 13 twist with amazing accuracy. Not every gun likes every bullet. seriously.... just experiment. I remember taking advice long ago about 6mm 105 grain Lapua bullets being gifts from heaven. I could never make them work. I wasted a great deal of time and barrel life chasing a red herring. Not every batch of bullets is the same either. Berger 7mm 180s can vary greatly in diameter depending on where in the life cycle of the dies they were made.
 
paperslayer said:
12" twist will stabilize anything worth shooting from a 308. German Salazar has even shot 200 SMKs from a 13 twist with amazing accuracy. Not every gun likes every bullet. seriously.... just experiment. I remember taking advice long ago about 6mm 105 grain Lapua bullets being gifts from heaven. I could never make them work. I wasted a great deal of time and barrel life chasing a red herring. Not every batch of bullets is the same either. Berger 7mm 180s can vary greatly in diameter depending on where in the life cycle of the dies they were made.
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I think this statement is generally true, but there are exceptions. For example Hornady 178gn A-MAX call for a 1 in 10" twist. I'm sure they have a reason for it, and my guess is the length of the bullet. their 178gn BTHP (with the same jacket) does not call for 10" twist, and the main difference is the length.

Roddy, even with the 1-in-10" twist note on the 178gn A-MAX, I'd still give them a go in the 11" twist barrel. You never know, it might be fine out to 700m. a 168gn bullet isn't going to get much past 700m (ask me how I know), so either go light (ex. 155gn) and watch the wind closely or go heavy/long and see if the barrel stabilizes it.
 
Okay well I loaded up 50 168 Hornady BTHP's and 168 SMK's in lots of five, 0.4 grains apart. I stopped 0.4 from max load because even if that is super accurate I don't want to put that much wear on my rifle. Once I find a fairly accurate charge I was planning to adjust it by tenths of a grain. I loaded them all 0.025" off the lands and once I find a good charge it likes I will adjust OAL.

I also ordered a box each of 175 SMK's and 178 AMAX's. Is there any correlation between good loads with one bullet and good loads with another? Or should I just start at the base powder charge and work my way up again?
 
Roddy said:
Okay well I loaded up 50 168 Hornady BTHP's and 168 SMK's in lots of five, 0.4 grains apart. I stopped 0.4 from max load because even if that is super accurate I don't want to put that much wear on my rifle. Once I find a fairly accurate charge I was planning to adjust it by tenths of a grain. I loaded them all 0.025" off the lands and once I find a good charge it likes I will adjust OAL.

I also ordered a box each of 175 SMK's and 178 AMAX's. Is there any correlation between good loads with one bullet and good loads with another? Or should I just start at the base powder charge and work my way up again?
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when you get you a sweet point, just play with seating depth.
 
Roddy said:
Okay well I loaded up 50 168 Hornady BTHP's and 168 SMK's in lots of five, 0.4 grains apart. I stopped 0.4 from max load because even if that is super accurate I don't want to put that much wear on my rifle. Once I find a fairly accurate charge I was planning to adjust it by tenths of a grain. I loaded them all 0.025" off the lands and once I find a good charge it likes I will adjust OAL.

I also ordered a box each of 175 SMK's and 178 AMAX's. Is there any correlation between good loads with one bullet and good loads with another? Or should I just start at the base powder charge and work my way up again?
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In my experience, I have found that for a given powder and primer, if your gun likes say 168gr loads at 42gr charge weight, it will shoot most 168gr bullets of similar bullet design similar. Just my experiences. I have found 140gr SMK and Nosler CC and 140 AMAX all shoot very well with similar accuracy in my 260ai with 43.5gr of H4350.
 
Okay thanks. That's good to know. A differant bullet type or weight would require starting over though I take it? Like when I go from 168 to 175 SMK's?
 
Oh okay. I thought there might have been a way to use bullet weight or velocity as a baseline for other loads. Sorry about all the dumb questions, I am new at this. I didn't think you would just start hand loading and get custom match grade ammo for cheap but I also don't want to put a lot of wear on my barrel or waste powder and bullets if I don't have to.

Thank you to everyone for your responses.
 
When load testing my 308 rifle, where I found it liked the 168SMK fairly hot, I started with load data for the 175SMK a little under what I considered a comparative hot load. I figured no sense in wasting bullets starting way under where I figured the rifle may like it. Keep in mind that the sweet spot was always a bit under where max showed up.

Just a heads up how I ran mine.
 
relic38 said:
I think this statement is generally true, but there are exceptions. For example Hornady 178gn A-MAX call for a 1 in 10" twist. I'm sure they have a reason for it, and my guess is the length of the bullet. their 178gn BTHP (with the same jacket) does not call for 10" twist, and the main difference is the length.

Roddy, even with the 1-in-10" twist note on the 178gn A-MAX, I'd still give them a go in the 11" twist barrel. You never know, it might be fine out to 700m. a 168gn bullet isn't going to get much past 700m (ask me how I know), so either go light (ex. 155gn) and watch the wind closely or go heavy/long and see if the barrel stabilizes it.
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They do not need 10 twists at all. I shot them for years out of a 12 twist. There are lots of downsides to using excessive twist. Rifle Torque affects accuracy.

Look at the Greenhill formula

The downside to them is the fact they have a lousy BC compared to others in the 180 -185 grain class
 
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