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[Nashville]

Hi, I’m looking to build an Ultralight 300yard (max), scoped pack rifle and I’m looking for all the help, opinions and advice that I can get. I’m located in Alberta.

I have never built a custom before so everything is pretty new to me and my knowledge is next to nil... have fun!! (I know there will be lots of people that think I’m nuts!)

What I have already:
- Kimber Hunter (.308) and a Kimber Montana (6.5CM) that I can use for the action (SA) and bolt.
- A spare .308 Kimber Montana barrel (22”, 1:12, 4 groove???)
- An MPI ultralight stock

What I would like...I think... :
- All the work done in Canada (preferably out west, BC/AB/SK)
- As light weight as possible
- As close to MOA as possible
- To push a 200gr bullet around/as close to, 2500fps or more (is this realistic from handloads and a really.
short barrel???)
- .358win (more surface area for gases; less velocity drop per inch of barrel lost, bigger hole, option/light
handgun loads) or .338Fed (better ballistics) Thoughts???
- 300yds max (with velocity/energy for wapiti)
- 16”ish barrel (ported??), re-bored from the spare .308 barrel I have (I believe Kimber barrels are finished
at .560” at the muzzle). Would anyone (gunsmiths) consider touching a barrel this thin for a .338/.35cal rebore?

I have heard that Ron Smith in AB. Is the guy to go to for barrel rebores. I know he’s up there in age, does anyone know if he’s still working? Does anyone have a number for him?

I’m looking for a gunsmith that would consider taking on an ultralight build like this? I’m looking to trim as much weight as possible from wherever I can (safely).

Why you may ask?... Why do we do anything!? Curiosity, intrigue, unknown results, that nagging voice to push the limits in everything we do and plainly, just for the fun/cool factor of it!


I look forward to and appreciate any and all reply’s, Cheers!

 

[gunrunner8]

358 Win in 6lbs rifle would be brutal in recoil department. Aim for at least 20" long barrel for both calibers. Forget the recoil reducers.
That spare Kimber barrel muzzle dia would hardly be good to rebore to 338 Federal, you need at least .125" barrel wall thickness in there.
In deep woods of BC in close and personal situation against large game I would be more comfortable behind 358 Win.
GR8 2c worth....

 

[Nashville]

Appreciate your reply.

I’m thinking with a ported 16-18” barrel it should bring it down to bearable recoil levels. I’m used to shooting 300 mags (WM, WBY-M, RUM) without brakes as well as .338wm and .45-70, as long as it’s down to those levels I’m fine with that.
As far as barrel thickness goes, that seems to be subjective to the one working on it from my research thus far. Three common answers I seem to run across are .100”, .125” (as you said), .200” (big bores) for comfortability sake. I don’t have a caliper so I’m not sure what the barrel diameter is at say 16”, though it’s larger than the .560” at the muzzle at 22”. I Know pressures will be much higher at 16” than at 22”. That is one advantage to the .358 with lower pressures, though countered by the .338 having more barrel “meat”.
I think both cartridges would be excellent choices for close quarters against large game/predators and a short rifle would be nice for maneuvering quickly.

Overall my weight goal is sub 77oz (SA, mountain ascent weight) scoped! And shorter than an Adirondack (18” barrel, OAL 37.25”).

 

[bearhunter]

I have a suggestion for those insisting on "light" large bore rifles. Give a little to save being punished.

I have done a lot of extensive experimenting with "light" weight rifles in several different chamberings. Like the OP, I prefer the large bores of 338 diameter and over.

The one thing I found was that shaving weight off the barrel wasn't a good thing.

I've used short actions form the big four North American manufacturers, Mini Mauser actions etc from Europe and a few others to find the ideal for me "light" weight rifle.

I finally settled on a "short" 98 Mauser action, which is only slightly shorter than a "standard" length K98 action. Then, I found a decent heavy profile take off barrel with a 338 bore. Cut off the chamber, which was 338 Win Mag to the neck. This still left me with slightly over 23 inches of usable barrel.

The next step was to use a 308 Palma Match reamer to cut the chamber then open up the neck throat with 338 neck and throat reamers. I also modified a set of 308 win Bonanza bench rest dies with the same reamers. I do have to take a few thou off the case necks for reliable chambering.

Ok cut to the OP.

Most "light" weight rifles are unbalanced and not ergonomically correct IMHO. Because of this the felt recoil is, for most shooters, unmanageable and they develop a nasty flinch. I've seen this happen far to often. Funny, it's usually the shooters with tall frames that insist on having the smallest rifles.

I found that BALANCE was far more important when carrying a rifle over long distances than weight.

The rifle I finally settled on is a on the short K98 action, in a synthetic B&C stock, with a 20 inch Shilen take off barrel, chambered in 338-08. I shoot 225 grain Hornady Interlocks exclusively and if I do my part the rifle shoots better than I can hold out past 350 yards. The 225 grain bullets retain enough energy to pass through every animal I've taken with it, including Elk. I also broke down and installed a double set trigger that was removed from an old badly damaged sporter Mauser.

The rifle weighs in at slightly under 8 pounds all inclusive with ammo, sling, scope.

Total cost of this rig, ready to hunt came in under $500.

Here's what makes this rifle easy to carry and shoot. Proper weight "DISTRIBUTION"

When loaded, the rifle balances perfectly just ahead of the trigger guard, right on the mag well plate. Because of this it ISN'T AWKWARD to carry in one hand. Of course, it has a sling. The thing is, it's main use is for shots under 300 yds and usually in areas where it's more appropriate to carry the rifle by hand, rather than slung over a shoulder. This is a very important consideration.

BALANCE is IMHO far more critical than weight reduction. Again IMHO if one pound or half a kilo is going to make so much difference to the shooter/carrier, there are other issues that need to be factored in that don't include the rifle.

Because this rifle balances between the hands when it's being held in the off hand position, along with correct trigger pull length, proper stock comb to scope center height, the rifle comes to firing position immediately without having to search for the scope and the weight distribution/balance keeps it STEADY.

Most of the "light" rifles I've seen/used can't make these claims.

TURF THE LIBERALS IN 2019

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[Mik123]

Ron's number is 403 631 2405. I had him rebore a rifle for me. Of the top of my head it took about It took about 4-5 months and the cost was $350 plus tax and shipping. I'm not sure if he would be willing to rebore a Kimber 308 barrel since there's not a whole lot of material there.I'm guessing you're going for this type of build https://www.rokslide.com/uberlight-kimber-rifle-build/?

 

[Nashville]

BH, Thanks for your reply.

I’m leaning towards the 338fed I think at the moment. I think with that chambering and a ported barrel, the felt recoil should be very manageable, around or less than what I currently feel with my other rifles (RUMS/338wm).

I agree with you on weight distribution! It is extremely important in most cases, with this build I would still like it distributed fairly well but I’m not going to be as picky. This rifle will spend it’s time strapped to my pack on longer back country, hike in hunts. It will not wear a sling and carrying it in hand will be fairly limited. At an 18” barrel and 37” OAL length on the Adirondack, I have heard very positive reviews on fit, weight distribution, and swing to firing position.

What I currently have is a couple of Kimbers (Montana,M.A.,Hunter) which are almost identical to an Adirondack just with longer barrels... fit, swing to position, and distribution (2.5” ahead of the trigger guard on my Montana) are all quite nice. My thinking is now this... with an MPI microlight stock the weight will now be muzzle heavy, throwing the weight off. By cutting down and boring out the barrel it will bring weight back towards center again. Fit, and swing to position shouldn’t change too much over a stock Kimber...(we’ll see! Haha). I also think that it would be a much better balance and fit than my awkward Henry AR .22 survival at (3.5lbs/35”OAL).
As far as weight goes, I don’t need to save a half pound for it to make the difference I just want to try to build something as streamlined as possible. I have put a lot of miles on, carrying a pack and a 13lb 300RUM chasing late season elk up and down the foothills here in AB without issue as well as being an avid back packer.

You have given me more to think about when it comes time to building, it’s too easy to get tunnel vision without outside feedback, Thanks.



Mik, Thanks for Ron’s number, I will give him a call. The worst he can say is “No”. $350 seems more than fair to me, I’m not far from him so I would be able to drop it off/pick it up.

Yes, that is now the current rifle I am looking to base mine off of! I started with wanting to get to similar specs as an adirondack but with a larger cal (338). This led me to an article about a .358win ultralight build based off of a Rem. 700 SA which got me thinking about the .358win. At some point someone told me to check out MPI stocks and that eventually led me to Lukes build off his Kimber.
Now that I have seen it done, it makes me want to do it even more. I am currently leaning back to the 338fed as it has better ballistics.

It seems like it would be a fun built and pushing the limits.
I have .338/.30cal magnums and I have “ultralight” rifles already. I guess I just want to take what I can from both categories and make something a little unique. Cheers.

 

[keith mokry]

I have one in each in ruger compact and they are both easy to shoot. Fed using 200 g blue box at 2500fps and 358 using 250 and not sure on the speed. I would go with 20" brl and try as light as can. Remember you will be adding scope, sling and shells which would add close to 1lb so total 7lbs. This would be easy to shoot in either cal

 

[AP]

why not just buy a 35 whelen Rem pump 7600 carbine or a standard 7600 rifle and have the barrel shortened to 20inches. Pumps work great in all weather, easy to maintain, shoot well and take magazines that are cheap and reliable. They also balance well and carry easily. Shortening and recrowning are dead easy on a 7600 as it is a simple matter to remove and replace the barrel