Exactly.
Note as per the 308 Win description page they used a Winchester 70 with a 22" 1 in 12 twist barrel for that testing
178gr ELD-X load
- Thread starter Darewar
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Note as per the 308 Win description page they used a Winchester 70 with a 22" 1 in 12 twist barrel for that testing
I am at .030 jump right now, as long as magazine allows I can try see how longer jump performs.
Well I’m also a PRS shooter and the vast majority of the Top 200 do not do old school old development. In fact every shooter I know runs the exact same load in every barrel (rebarrel 4-6 times a year). So you believe what you want and do what makes you feel better.
Well built rifles, with good components, and modern bullets do not need load development at all. Hybrids and ELD’s do not respond to jump, they simply don’t care. .020” off to .250” I’ve tested it all. No difference.
I would encourage you to listen to the Hornady Podcast about sample size. The reality is many people base load development off 3-10 rounds per charge or variable and this is just not enough to have any statistical relevance.
I do agree the reloaded ammo is better than factory ammo because you can get lower SD’s. Factory ammo can easily be as accurate as reloaded ammo, but factory ammo will not be sub 10 fps unless you get it from custom shops.
Please do not listen to these guys. ELD’s are not jump sensitive. Load them to mag length and be done with it. Stop burning components, there are literally no gains to be had. People suggesting to adjust COAL by 0.010” is just a waste of time. If you are set on doing jump testing do something massive like .025”, 0.080”, .0120” (assuming the rifle allows). I’m willing to bet you find no difference in accuracy. You will likely have a different in velocity.
have you ever shot benchrest or Fclass?
The accuracy parameters for PRS are quite different than they are for short and long range bench rest or Fclass.
I agree about being able to run the same load in many rifles, but it all goes out the window when ypu are using custom chambers done by different gunsmiths.
I have watched lots of the Hornday podcasts, BTW....
Cat
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So in perfect world this would be true, what reloaders are chasing is the most forgivable round. My loads are not perfect, but at 43.5gr powder was getting ES of 40, at 43 ES of 16, with weighing out each load to the nearest 0.01gr. 43gr shots lot better group because it is more forgivable to tiny changes on powder charge.
Now if every load were perfectly the same, powder, case volume, neck tension, coal then they would all fire perfect groups, but there is no perfection there will always be variables so the search for the most forgivable round continues!
How many rounds? How many tests over how many days?
Unless the 43.5 gr load is resulting in some rounds being compressed due to the powder stack there is no reason a .5 grain difference would result in a 24 ES increase. Also ES is not a good indicator of loads, should always use SD for statistical analysis.
But what I’m saying is that something different is happening to your loads than just a .5 grain powder charge. The only time powder charge has a significant affect on SD is when the charge is too low resulting in inconsistent ignition or when the charge is too high resulting in inconsistent compressed/uncompressed loads.
It sounds like you are using a good scale, I would try to investigate why one charge is so wildly different than another. Or, run the test again on a different day - 20 shots each charge - compare SD.
GRT shows 43 is just under max pressure, 43.5 is over pressure which could be what is causing the high ES. So would you say groups constrained within a defined pressure should perform the same? Load development has already begun if you are narrowing your load down to fall within a certain pressure. And disregard any barrel harmonics?
So this is a controversial take, but I don’t believe in barrel harmonics at all in how it relates to accuracy. I know there are many who do, which is why tuners exist. But I don’t believe in tuners and I haven’t seen any empirical data that they work.
This can be tested by throwing a magneto speed or brake on a rifle. The POI will change, but I have never found my groups to open up. Similar to how comp shooters and the military will run the same load suppressed and unsupressed. Surely if barrel harmonics tuned to a load were a big thing hanging a 6-8” can off the muzzle would open or close the groups. But they don’t.
My load development is simple. I just load in increasing charges until I hit the velocity I want with my load. For length, I either load to mag length or if I have a super long throat I load to a safe parameter (enough bullet shank in the neck to firmly hold the bullet).
I used to do all the different load developments (OCD, Ladder, Satterlee) I tried them all. Never found any difference compared to doing my current method. The difference is my current method is way faster using less components. So more time shooting, less time burning out a barrel and components.
Yeah it’s true I’ve never shot bench (and have no desire to), so maybe a top tier BR shooter could make an argument against this method. But champion PRS shooters use this method, which makes it a good method for 99% of the shooting population. Maybe if you are chasing that 1%, there is more to it, but for the majority of shooters in the majority of applications this method is all you need.
