Subtitle: My 17Mach2 Does Not Shoot 1/2” groups at 50 yards all day. Does yours? Prove it.
A few weeks ago there was a thread on CGN posted by .22LRGUY regarding the accuracy potential of the Sako Quad in 17Mach2. He asked if there was a difference in accuracy between the heavy barrel and the lighter Hunter contour barrel. A number of 17Mach2 owners (past and present) responded that they believed that there wasn’t much difference in accuracy between heavy and light barrels...or much difference between the expensive and less expensive rifles in the 17HM2 caliber.
The consensus on this thread and others seems to be that guns chambered in this caliber are severely limited by lack of ammo choices. There is no true match ammo available and there is very limited ammo options currently available. I agree with this. I have a bit of experience with this caliber and played around with a few different guns as well.
In my research, the following questions came up in many of the discussion threads...all valid questions, in my opinion.
Why spend good money on an expensive 17Mach2 rifle when a less expensive gun will shoot just as well? I can’t answer this question but I can provide a little data ...a base line, if you will. That is the purpose of this thread. Hopefully others will provide data on a wider spectrum of guns and ammo.
Why shoot 17Mach2 caliber guns at all when the 22 LR guns may have greater accuracy potential at less ammo cost? The question regarding ammo costs can be debated because good 22LR ammo is just as expensive as 17Mach2. However, if your gun shoots less expensive 22LR ammo really well, or the more expensive stuff more accurately, then all the more power to you! Unfortunately, we 17HM2 shooters don’t have that much choice, at the current time! Will it ever get better? Who can say? In my opinion, the ammo market for 17HM2 is being held back by a lack of support by shooters and the manufactures in the shooting sports industry. Ultimately consumers decide to some degree what the manufactures produce. If this caliber has no future, then it’s a shame because its a great and fun caliber to shoot!
I’m biased. I love the 17Mach2 for hunting small varmints. I live on the prairies where gopher hunting opportunities are plentiful. In my opinion, this may be the best caliber for accurately shooting those destructive little pests at close to medium ranges (0-150 yds). It’s deadly on small vermin including gophers, squirrels and magpies. It kills with a certain “gusto”. I don’t want to be too graphic or talk about the damage it does to it’s intended targets but gophers hit with body shots under 125 yards don’t make it back into their holes! Headshots on edible small game such as rabbits and grouse (and those who eat squirrels) are advisable due to the damage it inflicts. Ammo, when you can find it, is normally cheaper than the 17HMR. However, as a hunting rifle, the 17Mach2 probably doesn’t do much in the performance side of things that the 17HMR can’t do. Its advantages are cost of ammo, lower noise and ammo fits in a .22LR profile rifle (and uses the same sized magazine). If you have a switch barrel rifle like a Sako Quad, or a CZ 455/457 and you wanted to add a .17 barrel, you could chose to purchase a 17M2 barrel and save money upgrading to different magazines. There many other advantages and disadvantages of this caliber (listed on many threads on CGN and Rimfire Central) but many of these differences delve into the realm of minutia.
What is the true accuracy potential of guns in this caliber? I did some research on this question but couldn’t find much accuracy data to back all the internet opinions on 17HM2 rifle/ammo accuracy. The lack of data motivated me to test out my own rifles/ammo and post my results. I can’t definitively answer the accuracy question but I can provide a few data points based on my experiences.
In my desire to document data, I felt that this thread would be improved by using the shooting methodology of the “My 22 shoots 1/2" groups at 50 yards all day! Really? Prove it!” (It is a great CGN thread started by Underthegun. It also seems that there are no small number of 22LR guns, ammo and shooters that can achieve this challenge!). Shooting 5 groups of 5 shots at 50m on a single piece of target paper is a good methodology for shooting groups (verses cherry picking the “one off”...or “single best group” or by discounting flyers, as seem on many internet accuracy threads).
My data: I currently own 5 rifles in 17HM2, all are typically used for hunting small vermin.
Cooper M57 Jackson Hunter
Sako Quad Range (with a hunter contour barrel)
CZ 452 American
Kimber K22 SVT
Volquartsen Summit
All the ammo used in this test comes from single random lots of Eley and Hornady 17gr ammo. Both types of ammo use the Hornady 17 Gr. V-max bullets. The Eley package says it uses the Eley Primer System. Other than that, I don’t know what else is different about these types of ammo. (Note: I have always felt that the Eley ammo was significantly more accurate and consistent than the Hornady ammo.) I also have some CCI and Hornady 15.5gr. ammo, but due to time, I didn’t test this ammo. If there is an interest in this CGN thread, I would be happy to do follow up testing of different lots types/lots of ammo and document if there are significant differences in results. I love to shoot!
To make my rifles more steady on the bench, I installed a picatinny rail on each of the rifles forends. The rail allows me to use a front bag rider to add stability on my front rest. This was done to reduce “gun wobble” on the rest and try to make the test more consistent.
In my experience, guns in .17 caliber are really sensitive to bore cleanliness. Accuracy seems to fall off really quickly when a gun gets dirty (unlike .22LR). Therefore, I cleaned the bore to start and between ammo tests. I fired 15 fouling rounds of each ammo type before starting the test on paper. I’m not sure if the cleaning/fouling between ammo types was necessary because all the bullet were 17gr. V-Max.
High barrel temperature was a factor. It was about 30 C yesterday and the thin hunter contour barrels heated up rather quickly. So, I allowed the barrels to cool off between 10 shot strings.
I fouled the bore and then proceeded to shot the 5 x 5 shot groups in consecutive fashion. There were no “do-overs”, no second attempts, and flyers were counted. Let me say that I’m not particularly proud of my results, but they speak for themselves!
My conclusions:
None of the rifles were were significantly more or less accurate with the Eley ammo. The average differences between the rifles was small. The Cooper rifle shot the Hornady ammo significantly better than the other rifles and was the only rifle to shoot Hornady ammo marginally better than Eley. The Cooper posted the smallest 5 shot group at 0.182” using Hornady ammo. This was an anomaly (fluke). The Sako Quad using Eley ammo posted the smallest average group size at 0.477”. Much more testing would be required before any definitive conclusions could be reached regarding which rifle was truly the most accurate. In general terms, average groups with all the rifles and ammo tested fell within the 1 to 2 MOA grouping (1/2 to 1” average at 50m).
There was a larger variation in the Hornady ammo relative to the Eley ammo. My earlier assumption that the Eley ammo was more accurate than the Hornady still holds true for this test. The Eley ammo seemed to be more consistent and accurate compared to the Hornady ammo in these rifles. The data is far from conclusive but it suggests that the rifles are not the limiting factor in accuracy...the ammo is. I didn’t check ammo speed because my chrony doesn’t pick up the small bullet very well.
Note: This is a limited test...a single point in time...not a definitive test of accuracy potential. I’m sure there are better shooters out there with different guns and ammo who might have completely different results.
Does anybody have a 17Mach2 rifle/ammo combination that will consistently print sub-MOA groups? I’d love to hear about it. I’m hoping others will post their results and maybe we will get a more complete picture of the accuracy potential of guns in this caliber.
I’ll post pictures of my guns and targets in a subsequent post.
Regards,
TJCote
In God We Trust...for everybody else, bring data!
A few weeks ago there was a thread on CGN posted by .22LRGUY regarding the accuracy potential of the Sako Quad in 17Mach2. He asked if there was a difference in accuracy between the heavy barrel and the lighter Hunter contour barrel. A number of 17Mach2 owners (past and present) responded that they believed that there wasn’t much difference in accuracy between heavy and light barrels...or much difference between the expensive and less expensive rifles in the 17HM2 caliber.
The consensus on this thread and others seems to be that guns chambered in this caliber are severely limited by lack of ammo choices. There is no true match ammo available and there is very limited ammo options currently available. I agree with this. I have a bit of experience with this caliber and played around with a few different guns as well.
In my research, the following questions came up in many of the discussion threads...all valid questions, in my opinion.
Why spend good money on an expensive 17Mach2 rifle when a less expensive gun will shoot just as well? I can’t answer this question but I can provide a little data ...a base line, if you will. That is the purpose of this thread. Hopefully others will provide data on a wider spectrum of guns and ammo.
Why shoot 17Mach2 caliber guns at all when the 22 LR guns may have greater accuracy potential at less ammo cost? The question regarding ammo costs can be debated because good 22LR ammo is just as expensive as 17Mach2. However, if your gun shoots less expensive 22LR ammo really well, or the more expensive stuff more accurately, then all the more power to you! Unfortunately, we 17HM2 shooters don’t have that much choice, at the current time! Will it ever get better? Who can say? In my opinion, the ammo market for 17HM2 is being held back by a lack of support by shooters and the manufactures in the shooting sports industry. Ultimately consumers decide to some degree what the manufactures produce. If this caliber has no future, then it’s a shame because its a great and fun caliber to shoot!
I’m biased. I love the 17Mach2 for hunting small varmints. I live on the prairies where gopher hunting opportunities are plentiful. In my opinion, this may be the best caliber for accurately shooting those destructive little pests at close to medium ranges (0-150 yds). It’s deadly on small vermin including gophers, squirrels and magpies. It kills with a certain “gusto”. I don’t want to be too graphic or talk about the damage it does to it’s intended targets but gophers hit with body shots under 125 yards don’t make it back into their holes! Headshots on edible small game such as rabbits and grouse (and those who eat squirrels) are advisable due to the damage it inflicts. Ammo, when you can find it, is normally cheaper than the 17HMR. However, as a hunting rifle, the 17Mach2 probably doesn’t do much in the performance side of things that the 17HMR can’t do. Its advantages are cost of ammo, lower noise and ammo fits in a .22LR profile rifle (and uses the same sized magazine). If you have a switch barrel rifle like a Sako Quad, or a CZ 455/457 and you wanted to add a .17 barrel, you could chose to purchase a 17M2 barrel and save money upgrading to different magazines. There many other advantages and disadvantages of this caliber (listed on many threads on CGN and Rimfire Central) but many of these differences delve into the realm of minutia.
What is the true accuracy potential of guns in this caliber? I did some research on this question but couldn’t find much accuracy data to back all the internet opinions on 17HM2 rifle/ammo accuracy. The lack of data motivated me to test out my own rifles/ammo and post my results. I can’t definitively answer the accuracy question but I can provide a few data points based on my experiences.
In my desire to document data, I felt that this thread would be improved by using the shooting methodology of the “My 22 shoots 1/2" groups at 50 yards all day! Really? Prove it!” (It is a great CGN thread started by Underthegun. It also seems that there are no small number of 22LR guns, ammo and shooters that can achieve this challenge!). Shooting 5 groups of 5 shots at 50m on a single piece of target paper is a good methodology for shooting groups (verses cherry picking the “one off”...or “single best group” or by discounting flyers, as seem on many internet accuracy threads).
My data: I currently own 5 rifles in 17HM2, all are typically used for hunting small vermin.
Cooper M57 Jackson Hunter
Sako Quad Range (with a hunter contour barrel)
CZ 452 American
Kimber K22 SVT
Volquartsen Summit
All the ammo used in this test comes from single random lots of Eley and Hornady 17gr ammo. Both types of ammo use the Hornady 17 Gr. V-max bullets. The Eley package says it uses the Eley Primer System. Other than that, I don’t know what else is different about these types of ammo. (Note: I have always felt that the Eley ammo was significantly more accurate and consistent than the Hornady ammo.) I also have some CCI and Hornady 15.5gr. ammo, but due to time, I didn’t test this ammo. If there is an interest in this CGN thread, I would be happy to do follow up testing of different lots types/lots of ammo and document if there are significant differences in results. I love to shoot!
To make my rifles more steady on the bench, I installed a picatinny rail on each of the rifles forends. The rail allows me to use a front bag rider to add stability on my front rest. This was done to reduce “gun wobble” on the rest and try to make the test more consistent.
In my experience, guns in .17 caliber are really sensitive to bore cleanliness. Accuracy seems to fall off really quickly when a gun gets dirty (unlike .22LR). Therefore, I cleaned the bore to start and between ammo tests. I fired 15 fouling rounds of each ammo type before starting the test on paper. I’m not sure if the cleaning/fouling between ammo types was necessary because all the bullet were 17gr. V-Max.
High barrel temperature was a factor. It was about 30 C yesterday and the thin hunter contour barrels heated up rather quickly. So, I allowed the barrels to cool off between 10 shot strings.
I fouled the bore and then proceeded to shot the 5 x 5 shot groups in consecutive fashion. There were no “do-overs”, no second attempts, and flyers were counted. Let me say that I’m not particularly proud of my results, but they speak for themselves!
My conclusions:
None of the rifles were were significantly more or less accurate with the Eley ammo. The average differences between the rifles was small. The Cooper rifle shot the Hornady ammo significantly better than the other rifles and was the only rifle to shoot Hornady ammo marginally better than Eley. The Cooper posted the smallest 5 shot group at 0.182” using Hornady ammo. This was an anomaly (fluke). The Sako Quad using Eley ammo posted the smallest average group size at 0.477”. Much more testing would be required before any definitive conclusions could be reached regarding which rifle was truly the most accurate. In general terms, average groups with all the rifles and ammo tested fell within the 1 to 2 MOA grouping (1/2 to 1” average at 50m).
There was a larger variation in the Hornady ammo relative to the Eley ammo. My earlier assumption that the Eley ammo was more accurate than the Hornady still holds true for this test. The Eley ammo seemed to be more consistent and accurate compared to the Hornady ammo in these rifles. The data is far from conclusive but it suggests that the rifles are not the limiting factor in accuracy...the ammo is. I didn’t check ammo speed because my chrony doesn’t pick up the small bullet very well.
Note: This is a limited test...a single point in time...not a definitive test of accuracy potential. I’m sure there are better shooters out there with different guns and ammo who might have completely different results.
Does anybody have a 17Mach2 rifle/ammo combination that will consistently print sub-MOA groups? I’d love to hear about it. I’m hoping others will post their results and maybe we will get a more complete picture of the accuracy potential of guns in this caliber.
I’ll post pictures of my guns and targets in a subsequent post.
Regards,
TJCote
In God We Trust...for everybody else, bring data!
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Some very fine rifles there, and a nice/honest/objective review. Awesome! Our conversation really shaped my decision in the end, and here sits a 17M2 I'm just getting to know! (heavy barrel, you can't see) Been doing a little load testing, but wind/rain (sometimes both) haven't made things easy the last few weekends. I think I'm still a .22LR fan ahead of all else, but, nice to hear that familiar, choked/.17 rimfire sound again. I've decided to pause the effort until I can get the trigger where I want it, but having fun so far! 
