18% OFF September Special & NEW LAR-15 Steel Mags!
- Thread starter Zahal.org
- Start date
Canuck1978
Regular
- Location
- Vancouver
Will any or are there any 10 round 7.62x39 pistol mags with the 20 or 30 round body size? Oh I also need some .50 Beowulf pistol mags to feed my .50 pistol.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
The only legal magazine is the 10-round. All the others are standard USGI magazines (30, 20, 15) pinned to 10-rounds and simply stamped LAR-15. This is taking a lot of liberties with the SFSS ruling on the LAR-15 and has the potential to backfire with a lot of unforseen negative consequences. This is no different than taking my 40-round PMAG, re-pinning it to 10 rounds and they writing LAR-15 on it with white crayon.
I think Zahal is being really irresponsible here and I think anyone who has these shipped to them is begging for both seizure and charges. Good luck to those that order - you're going to need it...
darrstew
CGN Regular
- Location
- Kawartha Lakes, ON
I would be very interested to see what happens at the border. Hopefully everyone that ordered will update the thread. I too would be interested in 7.62x39 LAR mags if they are actually legal.
Paul_1982
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Orangeville
Agreed 100%
This could end up screwing the xurrent 10 rounders too if enough 10/30s are imported and the RCMP get involved.
We’re going to leave this post up, because we think it’s important to be transparent and forthcoming.
These magazines are not “crayon” they are being produced by an established manufacturer for a specific firearm.
Nor are they unprecedented. The ATRS AT15 pistol magazines were made to ten round capacity with 20 round bodies in Israel and successfully imported into Canada.
It’s also been made clear that the RCMP is unwilling to provide any kind of approval for a given magazine, written or otherwise. It is not their responsibility to prove a positive.
In the event that there is any CBSA issue, we refund the customer and the item is seized. Unfortunately we have experience with this, and no charges were laid. Many years ago a gentleman ordered a CZ-858 full capacity drum magazine which the Czech office willingly shipped, an event which prompted us to learn more about the Canadian market and laws.
We are confident in the status and capability of these magazines, but we understand the inherent distrust and skepticism that grows under the RCMP’s often inconsistent enforcement of the law.
In the interest of openness, we will not restock these items until we are assured that the first batch has been successfully delivered and that customers are satisfied with their performance.
BDSL
CGN Regular
- Location
- GTA, Ontario
Thanks. Please keep us posted...
chalkriver2
CGN Regular
Thanks for the update .
If they allow this mag and its able to be inserted fully loaded in an AR with the bolt forward these will sell like hotcakes !!
If they allow this mag and its able to be inserted fully loaded in an AR with the bolt forward these will sell like hotcakes !!
Paul_1982
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Orangeville
Directly from the 2008 RCMP ruling on the LAR-15 magazine... the magazine must be stamped:
RRA Model LAR-15 Pistol Magazine
.223 Rem/5.56 Nato- 10 Round Capacity
Its a .pdf file but its in this article: globalnews.ca/news/365051/loopholes-allow-some-10-round-magazines-in-some-semi-automatic-rifles/
Whether these sneak through customs or not you are playing with fire with our gun laws.
RRA Model LAR-15 Pistol Magazine
.223 Rem/5.56 Nato- 10 Round Capacity
Its a .pdf file but its in this article: globalnews.ca/news/365051/loopholes-allow-some-10-round-magazines-in-some-semi-automatic-rifles/
Whether these sneak through customs or not you are playing with fire with our gun laws.
ChefBoyOhBoy
Regular
- Location
- GTA
The magazines appear to be stamped that per the photos.
Paul_1982
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Orangeville
The way I read the bulletin is the 10 round capacity is the magazine capacity as a whole... not 30 pinned to 10. Just make sure anyone pressing buy does their research... not one Canadian business has anything like these... you would think they'd have jumped all over these... no?
If originally manufactured as a 30 round pistol magazine... why would it be stamped "10 round capacity"?
Excellent point...
chicu1981
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Toronto, ON
Also the AT15 mags by ATRS were not pinned. They were long bodied and manufactured for a max capacity of 10 rounds only. Internal mag body features enabled it to hold only 10 rounds only. They were designed for AT15 pistol. The ones Zahal is selling are just plane Jane USGI pinned to 10. This is really an unfortunate situation. Buyers beware this is not worth the risk of getting charged.
blaxsun
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
They might as well be, because the legal precedent you're citing isn't written in pencil nor is it open to broad interpretation. The Beowulf magazines (incidentally, also manufactured by another Israeli company) have also been prohibited as the SFSS deemed them a modification of a standard AR15 magazine. So guaranteed if simply stamping those "Beowulf" didn't fly that rest assured stamping them "LAR15" sure as heck won't either.
What arrogance! Will you also be providing free legal counsel and compensation to anyone charged? Because CSBA also works with LE to make arrests when prohibited magazines are picked up or delivered to the customer. Or did your vast forray into the Canadian legal system neglect to uncover this insignificant aspect?
In addition, when your cavalier attitude forces a SFSS re-review of the LAR15 pistol magazine and gets it prohibited at greater than 5 rounds - will you again so smugly feign ignorance?
You're playing with fire - and Canadian gun owners are going to end up burned.
NaOH
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Okanagan, BC
They were originally designed and manufactured as a pistol magazine for a commonly available pistol in Canada. Therefore ten round maximum.
There is an argument that these AR pistol mags are an exact copy of a commonly available RIFLE magazine, therefore limited to five rounds.
I don't agree with this but it seems straightforward to me.
Paul_1982
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Orangeville
This can start an entire debate if youd like... or you can just search for LAR15 magazine laws. The magazine must be originallt manufactured for use in a pistol... these are 30 round magazines originally manufactured for a rifle, then pinned to 10 and stamped pistol mag. Doesn't work like that.
Glock mags were originally manufactured for the pistol... not a rifle.
chicu1981
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Toronto, ON
I think if they are really upto it, they should manufacture a 27 round ar pistol mag and then pin it to 10.
jokes aside, this is a no go Canadian market. Zahal do the honorable thing. Cancel all order and do not ship.
jokes aside, this is a no go Canadian market. Zahal do the honorable thing. Cancel all order and do not ship.
PaveHammer
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Kingston, ON
Ultimately, we can't collectively keep our head in the sand and hope to not draw attention to some of the existing "loopholes" or interpretations of the law. I don't condemn Zahal for bringing these magazines to market, or attempting to, because it's done in the best interests of the firearms community. These magazines are no more rifle magazines than the original RRA mags are pistol magazines. If the company advertises that these magazines are designed for use in the commonly-available LAR-15 pistol, and are SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED for use in that pistol alone, that meets muster for the letter and spirit of the law, regardless of our own feelings or interpretations.
If the RCMP clamour all over these and use them as the example to prohibit all "pistol" magazines, I don't know that it's Zahal's fault - that's coming one way or another, and to say that it's their fault is disingenuous. It's a storm cloud on the horizon; it's coming whether you like it or not, and whether one importer starts the spark that ignites the fire or another or just a magazine getting picked up at the range.
This whole "don't do anything to draw attention to us!" mindset is infuriating. Status quo sucks - we only have the 10 round pistol magazines because a company decided to push the envelope. We can have full-size 10 round pistol magazines if this company pushes the envelope again.
If the RCMP clamour all over these and use them as the example to prohibit all "pistol" magazines, I don't know that it's Zahal's fault - that's coming one way or another, and to say that it's their fault is disingenuous. It's a storm cloud on the horizon; it's coming whether you like it or not, and whether one importer starts the spark that ignites the fire or another or just a magazine getting picked up at the range.
This whole "don't do anything to draw attention to us!" mindset is infuriating. Status quo sucks - we only have the 10 round pistol magazines because a company decided to push the envelope. We can have full-size 10 round pistol magazines if this company pushes the envelope again.
