1860 Henry Uberti feeding issues

[bandanaman]

I picked up a "as new in box" rifle which is beginning to give me some grief. I have been enjoying it immensely.
The problem I have in feeding just came up today at the range. I think the lower lug on the breech block may have broken off short. I thought it may have been the lifter arm or carrier block because it will function with a little upward push on the carrier. Not having another one to look at and internet parts pictures leave much to be desired I am hoping someone may have one and can compare theirs with a photo I will attach. In cycling the lever till the carrier is aligned with the bolt face you can see the lower lug looks a bit short of the brass carrier. My problem is I don't know how long it should be or even if this is the problem !!!! The rifle is as I said made by Uberti and is an iron framed 1860 Henry in 44-40.

 

[slowfire]

Not sure exactly what is causing your feeding problem.I was having trouble with my Iron frame 44-40. The bullet I was using (magma mold) was a smidgen to long when crimped in to the crimp groove. I find a good crimp important when the magazine has a full load, If a bullet pushes back in the case, That can sure ruin a stage at the cowboy range. Anyway my fix was to trim the cases a few thousand short and keep using the same bullet. Uniform case length makes crimping better.

 

[fingers284]

That lug looks fine to me, there are two things that may be your problem, you may have a week action spring on the lift lever, if they are week. Factory action springs on Uberti's are usually the other way tho...much to strong. Unfortunately a much to strong spring will create a serious problem in al their toggle action rifles, the strong springs wear the bump off the lift lever and the action lever in very few rounds ( Iv seen it happen in less than 500 rounds). For this reason, every new rifle I have anything to do with weather my own or working on somebody elses they get a set of Competition springs installed. Action springs are a 10 minute instal with a screw driver and Rusty Woods Trading in BC should have them in stock.

 

[bandanaman]

That lug looks fine to me, there are two things that may be your problem, you may have a week action spring on the lift lever, if they are week. Factory action springs on Uberti's are usually the other way tho...much to strong. Unfortunately a much to strong spring will create a serious problem in al their toggle action rifles, the strong springs wear the bump off the lift lever and the action lever in very few rounds ( Iv seen it happen in less than 500 rounds). For this reason, every new rifle I have anything to do with weather my own or working on somebody elses they get a set of Competition springs installed. Action springs are a 10 minute instal with a screw driver and Rusty Woods Trading in BC should have them in stock.

Thanks for this information I appreciate you weighing in on this as I really enjoy this rifle .I will contact Peter at Rustywood and hopefully take it there to have him look at it.....Thanks again.

Michael

 

[8ball]

In case of need Uberti parts are easily available: h ttps://www.vtigunparts.com/store/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=37&cat=Uberti+1860+Henry

 

[fingers284]

Not sure exactly what is causing your feeding problem.I was having trouble with my Iron frame 44-40. The bullet I was using (magma mold) was a smidgen to long when crimped in to the crimp groove. I find a good crimp important when the magazine has a full load, If a bullet pushes back in the case, That can sure ruin a stage at the cowboy range. Anyway my fix was to trim the cases a few thousand short and keep using the same bullet. Uniform case length makes crimping better.

Len , I will heavy-crimp cast slugs (even very hard cast in the 25-28 hardness range) were ever the crimp is needed. I have crimped well over hundred thousand cowboy rounds !/2 way between the crimp groove & first grease groove for Maria's .38's....and believe me if they didnt work I would've heard about it loooong ago. Hers, and every Marlin Ive tried them in, feed that length (1.515) of ammo without double clutching ever

 

[bandanaman]

Not sure exactly what is causing your feeding problem.I was having trouble with my Iron frame 44-40. The bullet I was using (magma mold) was a smidgen to long when crimped in to the crimp groove. I find a good crimp important when the magazine has a full load, If a bullet pushes back in the case, That can sure ruin a stage at the cowboy range. Anyway my fix was to trim the cases a few thousand short and keep using the same bullet. Uniform case length makes crimping better.

Chambering hasn't been a problem so far with anything I have loaded. My problem is after the carrier lifts the cartridge up it is 1/16 low at the breech bolt face and drops before the bolt can "catch" the cartridge and carry it forward into the chamber. in other words the lower lug on the breech bolt does not slide under the case rim in time....Hope this explains it better. Thanks for the info I will file it away in case I develop the same issue....

Michael

 

[bandanaman]

In case of need Uberti parts are easily available: h ttps://www.vtigunparts.com/store/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=37&cat=Uberti+1860+Henry

Thanks, I have purchased parts from them before for my Pedersoli Sharps. I am going to need a couple lever spring screws at least before I am done. These are in there so tight I broke my Chapman bit trying to loosen them off. Marred them both and only got one loose so far as it is.

Michael

 

[8ball]

Thanks, I have purchased parts from them before for my Pedersoli Sharps. I am going to need a couple lever spring screws at least before I am done. These are in there so tight I broke my Chapman bit trying to loosen them off. Marred them both and only got one loose so far as it is.

Michael

Sorry for your bit... The good news is that Chapman sells their bits individually at low cost shipping in an envelope! I recently made an order for some bits and a complete screwdriver kit for my son's birthday.

h ttps://chapmanmfg.com/products/slotted-insert-bits

 

[bandanaman]

Sorry for your bit... The good news is that Chapman sells their bits individually at low cost shipping in an envelope! I recently made an order for some bits and a complete screwdriver kit for my son's birthday.

h ttps://chapmanmfg.com/products/slotted-insert-bits

Good to know, thanks .My set is pretty much an antique .I've lost one and broken one now. Likely will order a couple of the small commonly used one. Thanks again.

Michael

 

[bandanaman]

That lug looks fine to me, there are two things that may be your problem, you may have a week action spring on the lift lever, if they are week. Factory action springs on Uberti's are usually the other way tho...much to strong. Unfortunately a much to strong spring will create a serious problem in al their toggle action rifles, the strong springs wear the bump off the lift lever and the action lever in very few rounds ( Iv seen it happen in less than 500 rounds). For this reason, every new rifle I have anything to do with weather my own or working on somebody elses they get a set of Competition springs installed. Action springs are a 10 minute instal with a screw driver and Rusty Woods Trading in BC should have them in stock.

It is looking like you hit the nail on the head fingers ! We got this apart while at a shoot in Heffley last week. We found a good amount of grit inside where it looks like both the lever springs are worn as well the lifting lever has the corner knocked off just ahead of a notch in the lifter where the spring drops into the notch and I believe letting enough pressure off that it can't hold the carrier up .It drops before the bolt can
push the cartridge forward.....The photo of the spring isn't that great but the lifting arm is quite visible when you zoom it....I think there should have been some kind of lubrication on these parts as they looked very dry to me.....I will likely check with Peter and see what he thinks before I order springs and a lifter lever [carrier is a question also]....I have a thought to weld the corner of the lifter lever ,reshape it and see if it will feed .Still think springs and screws are on the list in any case. Just what springs as I don't know anything about "competition springs'

 

[bandanaman]

That lug looks fine to me, there are two things that may be your problem, you may have a week action spring on the lift lever, if they are week. Factory action springs on Uberti's are usually the other way tho...much to strong. Unfortunately a much to strong spring will create a serious problem in al their toggle action rifles, the strong springs wear the bump off the lift lever and the action lever in very few rounds ( Iv seen it happen in less than 500 rounds). For this reason, every new rifle I have anything to do with weather my own or working on somebody elses they get a set of Competition springs installed. Action springs are a 10 minute instal with a screw driver and Rusty Woods Trading in BC should have them in stock.

Just thought I would post threeView attachment 688736View attachment 688737View attachment 688738 more pictures .Is this the Lobe you mentioned in your post ? It's hard to tell how much is worn off and whether the carrier where this rides may have issues now......Carrier looks thinner in one spot and the lobe on the lifting lever is not wearing squarely.

 

[fingers284]

The photo's wont load for me but I can better describe what i was talking about without the photo.

The "bumps" I refer to are at the end of the lift lever (also on the lever) where the lever bolt goes through. It looks like a washer welded to the lift lever. There is a cam shaped lobe at the far end of the lift lever also but it is just a riding point between the lifter & elevator ( carrier if you prefer to call it that).
Hope that helps.

 

[vagrantviking]

You guys are starting to worry me about my 1860 now. Following with interest.

I might have to take a close look and think about getting a spring set.

 

[bandanaman]

Don't know why I can't post the image but try these again

 

[bandanaman]

The photo's wont load for me but I can better describe what i was talking about without the photo.

The "bumps" I refer to are at the end of the lift lever (also on the lever) where the lever bolt goes through. It looks like a washer welded to the lift lever. There is a cam shaped lobe at the far end of the lift lever also but it is just a riding point between the lifter & elevator ( carrier if you prefer to call it that).
Hope that helps.

I recall a half moon washer on the lever which appeared to be dowel pinned through the lever . Don't have a photo of it but it did appear to be OK. The lever bolt I believe went through the arm at that point,

 

[fingers284]

View attachment 688971View attachment 688972View attachment 688973

Don't know why I can't post the image but try these again

that is just the riding point between the elevator ( brass thingy)and the lift lever. Its function is totally regulated at the other end by the action springs and the engagement of the lever engagement face.

If you can wait until Monday I can delve into a better explanation for you, short on time right now ( just loading the pick-up up with shoot'n gear for a Cowboy match and will be back late Sunday).

 

[bandanaman]

Hope your shoot went well. I am on a road trip at the moment so I have not been able to address repairing my rifle.So any insight on possible parts to examine, replace or upgrade will be appreciated. I am in Saskatchewan and will be back and forth to Edmonton.There may be a place for parts out this way possibly?