1889 Lee Metford

I gotta pull out my `92 MLM now and see what marks it has.

I agree with RRCo. Don't let the oxidization on the metal run rampant if there is a way to make it stall, but I sure wouldn't be scrubbing away on it.

Thank goodness mine only had red lint on it. Found an in the white rear leaf for it so I can get her to print over the bullseye instead of seven inches left at 100m.

Congrats on the find, take good care of that one.
 
Here are a few shots of the rear, front sights and a long range dial. Also, there are some notches carved in at the buttstock. I can only assume that the rifle was fired at some point of its life. Bore seems to be a little dark, but riflings are strong. It will look better after a bit of cleaning, I imagine.
I got a rifle from a local guy, who says that it came from RCMP many years ago( I assume he got it from the member of the force who had it in his private collection)...When I see him again in a few days, I'd sure ask more details.
IMG_1156_zps0b88c26a.jpg

IMG_1155_zps2f7e4c6e.jpg

IMG_1154_zps5dbb3050.jpg

IMG_1153_zps719fde2b.jpg

IMG_1152_zps267a914e.jpg

he most likely got it from the RCMP branch there many of them still have old guns kicking around in the storage rooms
 
Please note that some rifles were marked DP because they were obsolete and no longer issued as a front line weapon. It5 MAY be safe to fire or may not. It should be looked at by a gunsmith and disassembled since there are cases of chambers being drilled UNDER the barrel for cosmetic purposes. If nothing else you have a collectors item that SHOULD NOT be cannibalized!
If you can't shoot it, clean it up and hang it on the wall
 
I don't think I even going to disassemble the rifle, just will do cleaning with brush and oil. Needless to say I am not going to shoot it. I just love it as it is and how it smells.
 
Very nice find indeed, nice to see it has all its parts. I have one too but I'm missing the 8 shot mag and the bolt, anyone have those parts kicking around?
 
I've got her cleaned up a bit with oil and a brush. The bore turned out to be bright and shiny in VG condition. It sure has interesting type of rifling in it what online source refers to as 'Metford" type rifling designed for black powder cartridge projectile.
All I have left to do is to bring her to a good gunsmith who can "sporterize" the wood and a barrel and get her drilled and tapped for weaver bases. And voila! She is ready for the next moose season......:cool:
metford2_zpscca69cb3.jpg

IMG_1172_zpsebe3c1fb.jpg

IMG_1169_zps8bf63b1c.jpg
 
Last edited:
Don't forget the finish.

All I have left to do is to bring her to a good gunsmith who can "sporterize" the wood and a barrel and get her drilled and tapped for weaver bases. And voila! She is ready for the next moose season......:cool:


LeeMetfordMk11_10-12-10_zpsda62fbb1.jpg


Ha ha ha!
No need for a gunsmith, you could do all that yerself, including a nice sanded polyurethane stock finish!!:stirthepot2:
 
Front sight

Your front sight is missing an insert.

I have a Mk.I* that has been a pet project, when I got the thing it was pretty sad. The front sight had once sported the factory insert, however somebody removed it, with a hammer by the looks of it.



IMG_1762.jpg
IMG_1761.jpg
IMG_1760.jpg


So using my precision hammer and punch, some gentle encouragement, the metal came back into shape.

IMG_1766.jpg
IMG_1767.jpg
IMG_1768.jpg


Sitting at the bench with vise and handtools, I made three inserts using hacksaw, file and drill. I made three cos the first one didn't fit too well, the second did fit and looked promising, however it is still somewhere under the bench after I dropped it. The third one worked out not too bad, so I mounted it and did some testing on the range to get the height right to bring the bullet impact onto point of aim.
129.jpg


130-1.jpg
140.jpg
143.jpg


Several iterations to get it shooting right, but I am happy with the result, it will do for now.


barrels02.jpg

Pic of three Mk.I* Lee Metford barrels. The bottom one is as yours would have been, it has the original factory modification with the insert.
 
Sounds like a good idea how to kill time during next snow storm day here....a little bit of elbow grease and good varnish and she'll look just as good as yours!:p

No, not my rifle, I stole the photo. This is actually a .22 rimfire conversion that somebody on another board was asking questions about.

Inserts for the sight are around. There was a modification to Long Lee Enfield sights around 1902 after it was determined thet many rifles shot three feet to the right at 300 yards. Made it difficult to shoot back at the Boars in South Africa. Seems that the 50 thou offset of the front sight was 30thou too much. An insert was set into the front sight ramp in the same way as the Lee Metford mods, the new insert having less of an offset. So if you could find an old Long Lee barrel with the mod, you would be home to the races.

Your barrel looks to be bobbed off a wee bit too. This was common to restore the crown that was worn from much cleaning with the pullthough cord. Original barrel had sight mounted 1-1/4 inches back from the muzzle.


Also if you get the chance, would you be so kind as to post a pic of the receiver, at the back end left hand side. Originally your rifle would have had a safety catch mounted there. They were removed with the upgrade(???) from Mk.I to Mk.I*. I do have a Mk.I* bolt with the safety cutouts in the cocking piece, but I have never seen such a safety catch one modified or not. I am curious to see what the factory did to cover the hole in the metal.

IMG_43401.jpg

Does your cocking piece have these half moon cutouts?
 
Thank you kindly, sir, for sharing such an info! I am just beginning to learn about this fascinating rifle. When I got it, I knew a little about them, but now I began discovering a history behind this design...
Yes, looks like the front sight is just about an inch from the muzzle on my rifle, but the factory tastefully restored the crown after cutting the barrel down. There is a screw on the left side of the receiver, I assume this is the hole you are talking about. And no, there are no half moon cutouts on the cocking piece, I assume they use an original Mk1* or later versions parts during conversion. If i ever come across of just Long Lee barrel then yes, I may jump at it in order to get an insert for front sight, but won't waste my time in sourcing that part since I am not planning on shooting this rifle and I love it just the way it is!
IMG_1184_zps60393f2f.jpg

IMG_1186_zps07aef632.jpg

IMG_1187_zpse3dd3796.jpg
 
A little time on the belt sander and some TLC with a heavy duty angle grinder mounted wire wheel, that rifle will clean right up!
Duct tape based camo pattern and you'll be able to fit right in with the other tough mudders.
lol!

Gorgeous rifle, you certainly lucked out. Pieces like these are more often found in museums than private hands!
 

That is one interesting rifle. I have never seen that 'F/W' marking before.

Also what is interesting is that your cocking piece has much later date marking from RSAF Enfield. The EFD mark appeared around 1897. The marking that I would have expected to see was a broad arrow over 'WD' for this time period. So either it was marked by the factory after that time, or, I did ponder on whether it might be a Mk.II Lee Metford cocking piece which is a very similar unit (but not interchangeable without mods). I would need to see the knub on the cocking piece that fits into the trackway on the end of the bolt to tell. Knub is smaller and different position on a Mk.I than that of a Mk.II.

The screw in the side of the receiver that you show is an ejector screw to flip out live rounds. With ejection, the fired empty case is flipped out as the mouth of the case clears the breech. The rotation of the casing is created by the drag of the case rim on the left side wall as the bolt is drawn back, the rim pushed against the wall by the extractor claw and spring. There is a tapered groove machined in the wall for this purpose, it has a ramp built into it to increase the pressure as the rim moves back. With a live round, the bullet sticking out the end of the case prevents it from flipping, so a secondary eject happens when the cartridge base is drawn further back and bumps into the screw. Try it with a live round and with an empty case, its very ingenious. I believe that this was one of J.P.Lee's innovations, and was used on all Lee Metfords and Enfields onward.

The safety catch that I am talking about mounted underneath the rear long range volley sight in much the same way as that on a Short Lee Enfield which was not new, but a re-introduction of the design updated. It engaged in those half moon cutouts in the cocking piece.

As I understand, the feature of the safety catch was first introduced to the Brit Army on the MLM Mk.I. Previous to that a safety catch was tried on trails series of martini rifles but never made it to production. Previous to that was the Snider which had a half #### notch on the hammer. So the new concept of a safety catch was introduced on the MLM Mk.I in 1889 and subsequently removed on the Mk.I* circa 1891. The updated design of the Mk.II (1892) did not have it at all, however, it was not a popular move with certain powers in the military to not have one. So the Mk.II* (1895) was fitted with the bolt safety design taken directly from the LMC Cavalry Carbine. The Mk.I Lee Enfield (1895) perpetuated this feature and was basically the same rifle as the MLM Mk.II* but with different rifling. The MLE Mk.I* (1899) was an updated by simply removing the clearing rod feature. The next one out of the pipe was the Short Magazine Lee Enfield in 1903, which revived the original receiver mounted safety concept but with updates. So the safety feature went full circle to come back pretty much to where it had started, mounted at the back of the receiver body on the same axis as the volley sight. (phew, try saying that paragraph without taking a breath).

Another member, Coggansfield, is doing a survey of Mk.II and Mk.II* Lee Metfords to confirm his hunch that the evolution of the Mk.II* was simply Mk.II rifles pulled from stores at semi random, new bolts with safety fitted and the * markings added to metal and wood. He is tracking serial numbers to verify this theory. All very interesting stuff to detail freaks like me.

Anyway, I'll stop babbling. It's because I am just as excited about your discovery as you are, if not more so!

You have a prize. I love to spend time just looking at old rifles like this. Almost like detective work. I even use a magnifying glass just like Sherlock Holmes!

As for the bobbed barrel, unlikely done by the factory as the ring on a bayonet would have nothing to mount to. This tells me that the rifle was use for shooting sometime in its post service life as is witnessed by the extra holes for mounting a rear sight.
 
Last edited:
DSC00024.jpg

Original Lewes front sights are a rare bird. If it does have the cross pin there is a good chance it has been converted and the front sight in this case has been broken and removed although there are no remains of the sight in the front sight block.
Enjoy.....
 
Hello I don't want to high jack this thread. I just picked up an 1896 Sparbrook with all matching numbers and what I think is complete with the exception of a shortened forestock. The volley sight, front and rear are there, dustcover etc. Should I start an new thread? I very much need input on this rifle.
 
Back
Top Bottom