1895 Marlin guide gun

maliboy67

maliboy67

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I will be reloading 45-70 for my 1895G. I was looking at my Lyman#49 manual and it has data for this rifle with a max pressure of 28,000 CUP. Since I will be using IMR 4198 or H 335 I went to Hodgdons reloading data to see what they listed. There are a number of loads listed. All of them start at higher pressure and larger powder charges that the lyman manuals max load and max at 40,000 cup. Anybody with experience loading for this rifle have any thought. I guess if I want to be safe then I can load from the lyman data but can I safely load from hodgdons data for higher velocity. There is a big difference between the 2 recomendations.
 
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I will not use max loads but I find it interesting that Hodgdons starting loads are hotter than the Lyman max load data. I have rrad several articals that say loading to 40,000cup is fine with the 1895. Both sets of data are for the 1895 and similar rifles and not the trapdoor. All the reloading data I have seen has loads for the trapdoor, lever and Ruger #1 type rifles.
 
Marlin

I recently purchaed the GBL madel in 45/70 , Bought a set of the Lee 3 die set and a Lee factory crimper , Had to order a collet from RCBS for my case trimmer to suit the 45/70 case as well as a shell holder for the hand primer ,I made my own case trimmer Pilot and a bushing for my flash hole deburr tool, Not sure of what powder i am gong to use yet , I did find out if you want to use the Hornady .325 Gr FTX bullets you have to trim .100 " off the cases unless you buy the Hornady cases they are allready to size, I have 100 Rem cases so i will probably use the solid lead bullets or the Rem bullet to start with.:shotgun:
 
pageophile said:
Modern lever actions like the Marlin can handle modern loadings. The older Trapdoor levers could not.
Click to expand...

^^^ This. My Hornady manual lists loads at 25,000 CUP (Trap Door rifles and replicas), 40,000 CUP (Marlin 1895) and 50,000 CUP (Ruger #1 and Siamese Mausers). The full bore 40K loads are real thumpers and not much fun to shoot out of a light lever action unless you enjoy abusing yourself.


Mark
 
Well I found some 405 grain lead so i will be loading them at moderate velocity they should work well and won't beat me up too much. The price was right as well.
 
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I found the max. loads of Hodgdon loading data not only
to be hard on the shoulder but also the brass extraction is
somewhat difficult in my 1895 guide gun.

I didn't find any noticeable difference between IMR4198 and H4198, has anyone ?
 
My go-to load for my guide gun is 42g of h4198 pushing a hornady 350g rn. Plenty accurate and not too bad on the shoulder. The hodgdon website lists 54g as a max load, and I've tried it. Had trouble extracting spent cases from the chamber and the cases showed a good size bulge at the bottom. They say it's safe, and I agree...but if you want more than 1 or 2 reloads from your brass and want to keep your rifle for years to come I'd suggest loading a lot lighter. After all you're pushing 1/20th of a pound of lead down the pipe, and that's not easy.
 
15-18 grain's of Trail boss under a 330-450 grain cast bullet are fun to shoot.
16 under a 350 will shoot through an 18 poplar no problem.Cast from straight wheel weight's.
 
I wouldn't hotrod a Remlin Guide gun (model 1895G)

I'd be leery of shooting the new Remlins with higher pressure loads considering the number of defective guns returned since the Cereberus/Freedom/Remington group bought Marlin.

I don't think the New York factory is capable of making the 1895G to the standards and tolerances required to handle high pressure loads.

I believe that's the reason the high pressure calibers like the .450 Marlin have been dropped from the list of Guide gun options.

Everybody has "hot rodded" .45-70 Gvt. loads for the 1895G for years without problems but if a substandard Remlin blows up the manufacturer has .45-70 SAAMI pressure limits to hide behind and can say, "You shouldn't have fired ammo that was loaded over SAAMI specified pressures".
 
onei said:
I found the max. loads of Hodgdon loading data not only
to be hard on the shoulder but also the brass extraction is
somewhat difficult in my 1895 guide gun.
Click to expand...

irishlad said:
My go-to load for my guide gun is 42g of h4198 pushing a hornady 350g rn. Plenty accurate and not too bad on the shoulder. The hodgdon website lists 54g as a max load, and I've tried it. Had trouble extracting spent cases from the chamber and the cases showed a good size bulge at the bottom. They say it's safe, and I agree...but if you want more than 1 or 2 reloads from your brass and want to keep your rifle for years to come I'd suggest loading a lot lighter. After all you're pushing 1/20th of a pound of lead down the pipe, and that's not easy.
Click to expand...

Hard extraction is a sure sign the pressure is too high for your rifle.
All loading manuals I have ever seen state:
Following loads were safe in our rifle, your results may vary.
 
Hodgdon data & case make

I recently realized that the case, primer info etc. is available on the Hodgdon site. If you click "print" it will display a printer-friendly table. The 45-70 data (along with almost everything else) uses a Winchester case.

Somebody has posted that Win cases hold 3.6% more volume than Starline and 5.4% more volume than R-P. Therefore you have to decrease your powder weights accordingly. That means that in theory, if you use R-P brass, your max load is actually close to the suggested starting load.

I've tried using a ball powder (4227)to compare R-P and Starline capacities and got a difference of 0.6 grains (69.7 vs 70.3). I've Never used Winchester brass but it would be nice to hear from someone else who has compared these.

B
 
Yes there is a difference

onei said:
I found the max. loads of Hodgdon loading data not only
to be hard on the shoulder but also the brass extraction is
somewhat difficult in my 1895 guide gun.

I didn't find any noticeable difference between IMR4198 and H4198, has anyone ?
Click to expand...


I have loaded both IMR4198 and H4198 for at least 10 45-70's.
there is a difference if you want to maximize the performance (velocity wise).

I found that IMR4198 reached peak pressures in which case extraction became sticky sooner, at a lower realized velocity. But it shot accurately.

H4198 reached higher velocity before pressures became an issue.
Accuracy was also good.

I found that overall, the H4198 had a better load density and a more consistant standatd deviation and extream spread.

This again is tested with at least 10 different rifles/varing barrel lengths etc.
But all Marlin levers.

This powder is definitely worth a serious try.
As bullet weight went up, the H4198 seemed to perform better.
I have settled with two bullet weights for my levers.
350grains and 400grains.

I have not experimented with heavier bullet weights than this, due to the limited ability of the lever actions to function through the action. "too long".
And too much case capacity lost if seated deeper to compensate.

Some 45-70 rifles may not like these powders, but I have yet to see it.
Long barreled Single shots may perform better with other powder burn rates.
There is allot of experienced shooters here on gunnutz, hopefully more of them cam chime in and give more information that can help.

The 45-70. Really does start to recoil heavily when working in the upper range of powder charges! So pick your loads according to purpose.
And just have fun with it!

Straight shootin guys!
 
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Win brass definately has more volume, and creates less pressure than Starline or Rem. I used Barnes data and the max charges in the manual had no pressure signs, and 250 fps lower speeds. I had to increase the charge almost 3 grains to show some expansion in the case, and get a 300 gr. to 2000 fps. I also checked volume in grains water and the win brass showed significately more volume than rem.
 
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did you take a look at the table for .45-70 loads - Trapdoor rifles? On that table in the Hogdon guide, are a whole bunch of milder loads.
 
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