1899 Winchester Mod 94 in 38-55 caliber in need of repairs

Muskyhunter1

Muskyhunter1

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Near the tree with the crooked limb.
I picked up an old rifle today and was hoping I could get some info from you good folks.

She is in rough shape but I got her cheap. The action is sound and really tight, wood is good (other than the nail for a sling in the butt - oh well sign of the times) and it has a neat short tube mag. All the bluing is gone or worn off. The gun had an old-ball rear sight and is missing the loading gate on the receiver. I took the sight off (still have it) before I new how old it was (checked serial as 1899) as I was going to fire it.

Correct me if I am wrong but it shouldn't affect the value (if any) if I fix the gate and leave the functional sight on without damaging it. It would be nice to fix it up original condition - if i could get the parts.

Will any pre 64 Winchester mod 94 loading gate fit it?

Does anyone have an idea what the real rear sight should look like? The one that was on it was really long. It covered the caliber markings on the barrel and was up on the receiver.

It has a stud on the left side of the receiver. Is that for a saddle ring?

1899 would this gun be only black powder?

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Any insight would be appreciated.

Thanks,
 
About the only thing you can do to this one that would decrease it's value, would be to cut it into 4 inch long sections, with a cutting torch.

Any and all things ever written about "original Condition" and "maintaining the patina" were meant to be seen in relation to a well taken care of example, not one that looks like it was towed behing the sewer cleaners truck while it made it's rounds.

Whowzat?

Fix it, sand it, shotblast it, paint it (OK, maybe not those last two, unless ya gotta),whatever. Steer clear of angle grinders and arc welders, and you should do OK.

Some wet or dry sandpaper and some serious elbow grease, and it could end up looking really good.

Factory loads for the 38-55 are fairly anemic, and should be safe in the rifle if it is fit to shoot at all. Check the barrel markings for Nickel Steel, or High Speed Smokeless markings, etc.Load to appropriate pressures in any case. It's not a Ruger Number 1 or a High wall...you can wreck it if you try, even if it has the more modern steel for the barrel.

Try to steer clear of schitty scratch engraving from the gift shop, if you feel the urge to engrave upon it. There are a fair few decent hand engravers out there that could use the work, and would provide a far nicer looking product.

Keep us posted!

Cheers
Trev
 
Original Model 1894 38-55 carbines are not that common, and yours is a special order half-mag. I would not reblue it or sand it. All I would do is to see if you could get some original replacement parts. You could try Western Gun Parts in Edmonton. Phone: 780-489-5711

If they don't have what you are looking for, you could try Winchester Bob in the USA. Or try Buckingham's Antique Winchesters, 501 Eaton Brazil Rd, Trenton, TN 38382, offers parts for ONLY the following models: 1866, 1873, 1876, 1885, 1886, 1887, 1890, 1892, 1894, 1895, 1897, 1901, 1906, Model 67's and Model 37's. No web presence. TEL: (Days) 731-559-4169, (nights) 731-559-4357, CELL 731-431-7350 or FAX 731-559-4367.

I've dealt with both and had no problems, except they don't ship to Canada, so you would have to have them ship it to a friend in the USA and then go from there.
 
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Hello

Your rear sight may have looked like one of these two and I am sure someone on this board would have one for you :)

Enjoy the ole girl and happy shooting

take care

jpc
 
That's a cool old gun! Yes, the stud on the left is for the saddle ring. As far as the black powder question is concerned, you could load black powder if you wanted to, but smokeless is what it was designed for.
 
Muskyhunter1 said:
Wow - so Trev based on your positive advice I should pretty much scrap it? I guess I could weld it closed and make a wall hanger or some curio for a plant hanger.

Oh well Trev thanks for being honest.

Win 38-55 thanks for the friendly advice. I appreciate it.
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Jesus, how did you pull that out of there? f:P:2: I said that you cannot do anything to make it worth much less, by repairing it. To make it worth less, you would have to cut it up. So, maybe go back and reread that post, and try to put the context into it.

The hand wringers that get all moany about repairing beat up old guns, are either repeating stuff they heard, out of context (the 'don't muck with the patina' crowd) or, often enough, they are setting you up to try to make a deal on it.

Fix it, make it into something that looks great again. In real terms, you have the basis for a pretty much guilt-free project beginnings. Do a decent job of it, and you will have a great hunting rifle.
Or just spiff it up a bit and take it out hunting. Nothing wrong with that either.

Just keep it away from the dime store engraver. That stuff looks nine kinds of lame.

But at no point did I say you should cut it up. Fawk!

Clearer?

Wood. Take a look at the roughed out stocks that Treebone carves. You can choose from plainer than factory, all the way up to 'too nice to take off the rack'.

Cheers
Trev
 
Hello,

Of the two sight pictured above the one on the right, standard carbine, is the most likely original sight for the rifle. The left sight, express, could have been used but are much less common. The stud on the right side was definitely for a saddle ring. Commonly removed because they had a nasty habbit of going "clink" at the wrong time and the quarry running off as a result. Yes, loading gates are interchangeable between calibers. If you would like the exact day on which the receiver was serialized you can contact the Cody Firearms Museum. Usually the rifle was fully assembled and in the Winchester warehouse after a few weeks of the serialization date. They can also prepare a "Factory Letter" specific to your rifle. It will contain the date the rifle entered and was later shipped from the Winchester warehouse and the original configuration of the gun. An example is shown below. http://www.bbhc.org/explore/firearms/firearms-records/
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I kind of like it as it is.

Michael
 
I had a carbine in 38-55 that the rifling was down to Shadows when viewed down the bbl. A little tweeking of the reloads and it shot amazingly well.
It's condition was similar to your find. I paid 300 for it and sold it for 350 with an oversize Lee bullet mold. They are quite hardy firearms and when used properly have amazing power.
The stock on mine was sanded like yours. About 5 % bluing left. The saddle ring sawn off too.
When running a patch through the bbl, you could feel the barrel tighten up in the middle but bore and chamber were sloppy! Keyholed is what I was told, probably did too with the powerful old CIL loads. I'd imagine the bullets literally blew through the sloppy old bore. Oversized pure lead bullets helped vastly.
I tried 4895 powder but it wouldn't burn it all, upon cycling the action the grains ( pellets almost if you are familiar with 4895) were evident. I'm guessing the bullet didn't generate enough enough backpressure to get a clean, hot burn. I switched to a faster powder with a lighter charge and it worked out really well.
Don't underestimate your find.
 
I went to a gunshow and bought a box of factory imperial 255 grn. I fired five shots at 25 yard. All 5 under an inch and three shots in same hole. I think I am in love - lol. Picked up a marble game getter rear sight for it and loaded 50 rnds of cast. Hope to hit range on Saturday to see how she performs. Just a great find for 50 bucks and a piece of history.

Tokguy how much over sized do they make the molds? I used Hi Skor 700x in my cast loads for just under 1000 fps. No gas check for blinking.
 
Muskyhunter1 said:
I went to a gunshow and bought a box of factory imperial 255 grn. I fired five shots at 25 yard. All 5 under an inch and three shots in same hole. I think I am in love - lol. Picked up a marble game getter rear sight for it and loaded 50 rnds of cast. Hope to hit range on Saturday to see how she performs. Just a great find for 50 bucks and a piece of history.

Tokguy how much over sized do they make the molds? I used Hi Skor 700x in my cast loads for just under 1000 fps. No gas check for blinking.
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How many grains ?.....:wave:
 
If I recall mine was .379
I recall reading in reloader magazine that one of the writers was drilling out the base on conventional bullets...turning them into Hollow base bullets.Awesome for a worn bore situation but a lathe or Unimat would be req'd, Not a tool that your average guy has in his garage
 
tokguy said:
If I recall mine was .379
I recall reading in reloader magazine that one of the writers was drilling out the base on conventional bullets...turning them into Hollow base bullets.Awesome for a worn bore situation but a lathe or Unimat would be req'd, Not a tool that your average guy has in his garage
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Oops !


I meant "how many grains of IMR-700X powder" ?...:redface:
 
Is it true that the older factory loadings in .38/55 were loaded with larger diameter bullets than the present day loadings? I read that somewhere.

tokguy said:
If I recall mine was .379
I recall reading in reloader magazine that one of the writers was drilling out the base on conventional bullets...turning them into Hollow base bullets.Awesome for a worn bore situation but a lathe or Unimat would be req'd, Not a tool that your average guy has in his garage
Click to expand...
 
Mike Webb said:
Is it true that the older factory loadings in .38/55 were loaded with larger diameter bullets than the present day loadings? I read that somewhere.
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My understanding is that some late made 38-55 rifles were built using .375 winchester (.375") dimensioned barrels instead of the original .379" 38-55 barrels, which were no longer produced. I have seen a winchester commemorative rifle built in the late seventies / early eighties stamped 38-55 that had the .375" bore. The regular m94 38-55 rifles I measured all had the .379" bore.
 
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Cyclone - sent you a pm re loading data. If anyone else wants it let me know.

tokguy - just a thought, what if you put a gas check upside down behind a bullet while reloading? Being a straight walled case the friction would keep it against the back of the bullet when you load it in the case. The skirt on the gas check would open and seal the gas in the bore and hopefully giving better accuracy in a seasoned (loose) bore.

Are we talking bore diameter or groove dia? Please correct me if I am wrong. The bore is the top of the land to the top of the opposite land. Groove is the extreme outer distance from the bottom of opposite grooves. Most 30 cal rifles have a bore dia of .300 and a groove dia of .308. The lands are about 4 thousand of an inch on each side - generally.

What is the bore dia and what is the groove diameter of the 38-55 traditionally?

Does anyone sell jacket .379 bullets?
 
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