19.5" carbine length 9mm Luger loads??

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JR Hartman

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so, knowing that 9mm Luger is designed to reach its full velocity in a 5" or so tube, I am assuming that using a longer barrel won't do much for pistol loads.

So, could a load be worked up that could take advantage of the long barrel by burning for the whole length?

I suspect that a slower powder and a bit more of it would do it. I have no place to start however and I don't want to wreck something or hurt myself.

I am pretty sure that something approaching 2000fps could be achieved. Knowing that +P+ loads already go 1800+fps I think it could go over with standard pressures, given the right amount of the right kind of powder.

This could easily make 9mm a viable small game round, and out to much longer ranges. As well, maybe even medium game and predators. I mean, 115grn at 2000fps makes for lots of energy. Hell its only a bit lighter than 7.62x39 and a little slower. If we could get it up to 2200 or so even more so. It should blow .357mag out of the water in terms of energy at range and flat shooting performance, given a standard .357 load.
 
A longer barrel will usually increase velocity even if peak pressure is reached within a few inches. Most pistol cartridges burn all their powder within 3-4" I believe (I may be forgetting) but the pressure is still high enough to continue accelerating the bullet for quite a bit longer. To develop a load that'll burn over an entire 19.5" barrel wouldn't be practical. A .223 cartridge burns all its powder within 10" or so and a .308 isn't much further (maybe an inch or two more). A shorter barrel just results in more of the energy released at combustion turning into noise and flash. That's why you get more muzzle flash and a louder report but lower velocity with a shorter barrel; some energy that could have been imparted to the bullet is turned into light and noise.

You could try a slower powder but unless you're using a bolt action, I'd assume the blowback action of the rifle is designed to operate with normal 9mm pressure curves. If you extended the curves with an abnormally slow powder you could have cycling issues.

Get some normal 9mm ammo and chrony the same ammo in both a pistol and your carbine. I can guarantee you that the same ammo in the carbine will have significantly higher velocity than in a pistol.

In terms of "[blowing] .357mag out of the water", you're really comparing apples to oranges. Comparing a carbine to a pistol, even if the pistol is a magnum, isn't a reasonable comparison. If you want to compare, look at .357 mag loads in a rifle with a similar barrel length. Both cartridges will benefit from the longer barrel.

If you loaded some 9mm ammo with the slowest powder you can find data for, it may give the cartridge more of an edge. You might be able to get it up to 2000fps with a slow enough powder but you could end up in dangerous pressures pretty quickly. The tiny capacity of the 9mm case doesn't lend itself well to larger charges of slower powder which is what would cause a slower pressure curve.

*edit*
It's .44 magnum, not 9mm or .357 magnum, but it illustrates the point. Skip to 9:33 to see the results.

Muzzle velocity increases over 300fps going from an 8" barrel to a 20" barrel with the same ammo.
 
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I don't think it would help and it could lead to dangerous pressures. no doubt a 9mm in a carbine would take small game up to coyotes no problem with standard loads heck id even be willing to take whitetail out to 15 yards or so with an accurate enough load
 
I have read data that showed virtually no difference in standard loads when comparing carbine length and pistol length, except for +p and +p+ loads.

the +p+ load made it to 1750 or so IIRC. all the normal loads were very similar from 4-5" all the way out. losses on really short carry pistols and a bit more up top.

I don't have a chrony, but I did read that one page with data that seemed to be well compiled and well reported.

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/9luger.html

here it is, I found it.
 
I've been loading up some 125gr hollowpoints with 4gr of titegroup for my JRC but haven't had a chance to chrony anything.
 
Carbines are usually blowback, so increased pressure has a limit. A slightly slower powder and more of it might lead to less premature ejection problems, I don't know.
ht tp://www.gunblast.com/ATI-JRCarbine.htm
DSC00038.jpg

DO NOT use Plus P ammunition in the Just Right carbine!

I think they can 3D print eyeballs now, so I wouldn't worry about it, but there may be handloading issues.
 
http://www.justrightcarbines.com/FAQs.html

Q: Can I shoot Plus-P (+P) ammunition in my JR Carbine? It should not be a problem for you to use Plus-P ammo in your JR Carbine. We initially prohibited Plus-P ammunition because the JR Carbine is a direct blowback weapon with a non-locking bolt. The added power of Plus-P ammunition caused a significant increase in gas discharge through the ejection port without giving any ballistic advantage over conventionally charged cartridges. We were concerned that the higher power ammunition could cause the bolt to move rearward too soon in the firing sequence, before the chamber pressure had dropped sufficiently, thereby prematurely exposing the case wall and causing potentially dangerous case failures. We have subsequently modified our bolt design and significantly increased the weight of our proprietary buttstock buffer. As a result the bolt stays in battery for a longer period, directing more of the combustion gases into the barrel and out of the muzzle. Plus-P ammunition may or may not provide a significant increase in performance at this point, but it should not cause any problems.

I tried some different loads and found accuracy to be best with 4 gr.
I would be hesitant to load up much hotter than that for sure.
The hotter loads I tried started to fail like in the pic.
 
In April I tested some 9mm 124 gn cast lead ammo in a CZ Shadow and Beretta carbine with 19" barrel. The carbine was just over 200 fps faster for each load.
 
Was wondering about that too. Heading to the range on Thursday to chrono some new loads, so may take my 9mm RRA AR15 to test out some loads I worked up - minor loads (135 PF), and +P+ loads (124gr @ 1322 FPS). It's only a 10.5" barrel though.

JR Hartman said:
so, knowing that 9mm Luger is designed to reach its full velocity in a 5" or so tube, I am assuming that using a longer barrel won't do much for pistol loads.

So, could a load be worked up that could take advantage of the long barrel by burning for the whole length?

I suspect that a slower powder and a bit more of it would do it. I have no place to start however and I don't want to wreck something or hurt myself.

I am pretty sure that something approaching 2000fps could be achieved. Knowing that +P+ loads already go 1800+fps I think it could go over with standard pressures, given the right amount of the right kind of powder.

This could easily make 9mm a viable small game round, and out to much longer ranges. As well, maybe even medium game and predators. I mean, 115grn at 2000fps makes for lots of energy. Hell its only a bit lighter than 7.62x39 and a little slower. If we could get it up to 2200 or so even more so. It should blow .357mag out of the water in terms of energy at range and flat shooting performance, given a standard .357 load.
Click to expand...
 
While I've never bothered to chrono 9mm fired from a pistol or a carbine, I have no doubt that the longer barrel significantly increases the velocity. That's just the way things work, the expanding gasses have more time to work on the bullet so it goes faster (up to a point of diminishing returns, of course)

When shooting hanging steel gongs at 20m, the difference in the reaction of the gong is very evident.

Given a proper bullet, I would have no trouble shooting a coyote at 100m with one of my Beretta a 9mm carbines. I'd shoot a deer at close range with it (50m, max) although I would be picky with shot placement.
 
Gatehouse said:
While I've never bothered to chrono 9mm fired from a pistol or a carbine, I have no doubt that the longer barrel significantly increases the velocity. That's just the way things work, the expanding gasses have more time to work on the bullet so it goes faster (up to a point of diminishing returns, of course)

When shooting hanging steel gongs at 20m, the difference in the reaction of the gong is very evident.

Given a proper bullet, I would have no trouble shooting a coyote at 100m with one of my Beretta a 9mm carbines. I'd shoot a deer at close range with it (50m, max) although I would be picky with shot placement.
Click to expand...

a deer would need a perfect heart shot
 
I did some experimenting around a couple years ago with a Sub 2000 and reloading carbine spec rounds. I tried 8.5 gr of Blue Dot powering a 90gr Sierra JHP. I would have tried more powder but that's all a 9mm case will hold. I got an average velocity of 1677fps.

I always wanted to try other powders to see if I could get faster. Unfortunately finding any pistol powder has been hard for the last couple years. You would need a pretty dense powder as the 9mm case is so small. I have been told power pistol could work well.

On the bright side 9mm is a very strong case. With careful increases I think a person could get pretty darn fast velocities. All you need to do is find powder to experiment with in the first place.
 
I've been loading 124gr XTP's with Titegroup for the JR.
Good enough results in water jugs that I would use it on coyotes out to 75m.
 
Juster said:
Carbines are usually blowback, so increased pressure has a limit. A slightly slower powder and more of it might lead to less premature ejection problems, I don't know.
ht tp://www.gunblast.com/ATI-JRCarbine.htm
DSC00038.jpg

DO NOT use Plus P ammunition in the Just Right carbine!

I think they can 3D print eyeballs now, so I wouldn't worry about it, but there may be handloading issues.
Click to expand...
They fixed that problem. The gen 2 jr carbines can shoot +p
 
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