1903 Springfield sights

sean69

sean69

CGN frequent flyer
Rating - 100%
95   0   0
Location
Oshawa
So I brought my shiny new 1903 out to the range to day to see what was what - pretty impressed with the accuracy, but I hate the sights. Just hate em.

Why is there a screw in the front of the front sight base? t's not adjustable is it?

The rear sight adjustable thingee on the sight ladder - no matter how much I tightened that down, it would slowly start to creep forward after a few shots and there is a fair bit of play in it before you tighten it down ~ is it just worn or is that normal? [and does that really even do anything? I did not appear to affect accuracy.... !?]

Trying to use the peep was a disaster - the only thing I could work with were the battle sights ... also, how do you use the rest of the sight positions, the christmas tree? thingee?

It shoots high, but not high enough from what I've been reading, about 6"

springfield-group.jpg



What about a no D/T scope mount - S&K appears to have 2 varieties, do they both require inletting the stock?

Does anyone have any experience with these or other mounts?

-thanks
 
Welcome to the joys of shooting the M1903 Springfield, one of the most accurate MILSURPs you will find. The sights can take a bit of getting used to. First, the front sight isn't adjustable. The little screw at the front is only there to secure the movable sight stud in the fixed base of the front sight band so that it doesn't fall out.

All adjustments for windage and elevation are made in the rear sight. The larger windage screw at the front of the fixed base is for adjusting point of impact left or right. The rear sight offers 4 different sighting options, incl the V at the bottom of the "christmas tree" that you speak of. The battle sight is what you see when the rear sight leaf is folded down parallel with the barrel. It is zeroed at 447 or 530 yds depending on variations in manufacture. The best target sight to use is the aperture in the rear sight slide that you see when the rear sight slide is raised. I have used it to shoot a gazillion rounds out of a number of M1903s and it allows the most refined sight picture for target shooting. I have used it to shoot many, many itty-bitty groups.

The binding screw on the rear sight slide is what holds the slide in adjustment and must be checked for tightness often when shooting. If the 5 shot group that we are seeing on your target is from your M1903, it is shooting quite well and the rear sight would seem to be OK. To get the rifle onto the bull you need to shift the entire rear sight to the right with the windage knob and then lower the movable slide in the rear sight leaf by loosening the binding screw, lowering the slide, and then re-tightening the binding screw. You can experiment with the 2 V sight notches that you see at the top of the slide and at the bottom of the "christmas tree" when the rear sight leaf is raised, but the best accuracy will come from using the peep sight. It is much farther from the eye than the normal rear aperture sight so it takes getting used to.

When using the peep sight it is a good idea to smoke both the rear of front sight and the drift in the rear sight slide that contains the peep sight to eliminate glare. Put the front sight on the point of aim, focus on the target and front sight alignment and let your eye center the peep sight to get a 6 o'clock hold with the top of the front sight on the bottom of the target. M1903 rear sights can wear and become sloppy thru use, often necessitating replacement of the windage screw or tightening/shimming the movable base. Like I mentioned, if that is your 5 shot group, the sights seem tight enough. All you need to do is to adjust the rear sight for windage and elevation to get it shooting where you want-normally 2 inches above the point of aim @ 100 yds.
 
Thanks for the info, clears up a few things for sure.

That group was shot at 50m with the battle sights because I didn't even hit the stand at 100 with the peeps ... was trying to figure out what was going on.

There is no play or slop at all with the windage screw, no worries there, but the sight ladder is extremely sloppy once the adjustment screw is loosened making it difficult to adjust.

I see e-sarconic has complete rear sights & parts available... probably a good idea to pick up a spare or two eh?
 
If the sight base and windage screw fit tightly, I'd be happy with it. The rear sight slide is always loose when the binding screw is loosened. They actually made precision sight adjusters for tgt shooters because of this. For practical purposes, once the slide is adjusted to the proper height for the desired zero and the binding screw is tightened down to fix it in place, you are good on that. The important thing is that the slide not move after the binding screw is tightened.
 
I does move after tightening, a couple shots and the screw is noticeably looser, another shot or two and it will move up a bit. Doesn't matter how much I tighten it. and when I say loose I mean loose - once the screw is loosened to adjust the sight I almost have to use 2 hands to make sure the slide stays perpendicular to the ladder arms - you can actually tighten it and have the slide on a 1 or 2 degree angle... doesn't seem right to me.

purple said:
If the sight base and windage screw fit tightly, I'd be happy with it. The rear sight slide is always loose when the binding screw is loosened. They actually made precision sight adjusters for tgt shooters because of this. For practical purposes, once the slide is adjusted to the proper height for the desired zero and the binding screw is tightened down to fix it in place, you are good on that. The important thing is that the slide not move after the binding screw is tightened.
Click to expand...
 
You can buy the complete rear sight assemblies on ebay for very reasonable prices. I had to repair mine, it would not stay put, either. The slider had to be straightened, as it was somewhat bent. Looked like something hit the little screw and distorted the whole assembly. After I fixed it, no problems. The M1905 sight does kind of suck as a battle sight, it is rather fragile. We, however, are not using our '03's as battle rifles, and with reasonable care, the sights stand up to normal use just fine. I do recommend getting a front sight protector, the exposed blade can be a PITA at times. Once you have the sight figured out, you can do some pretty amazing shooting with the '03!
 
sean69 said:
I does move after tightening, a couple shots and the screw is noticeably looser, another shot or two and it will move up a bit. Doesn't matter how much I tighten it. and when I say loose I mean loose - once the screw is loosened to adjust the sight I almost have to use 2 hands to make sure the slide stays perpendicular to the ladder arms - you can actually tighten it and have the slide on a 1 or 2 degree angle... doesn't seem right to me.
Click to expand...

I sometimes assemble or rebuild the leaf and slide units. Parts do wear or become deformed and may need to be replaced. Sometimes the leaf and the rear part of the slide can be straightened if they are bent. The sliding portion is comprised of 7 parts incl the front and back halves of the slide, the screw which joins the 2 halves of the slide, the drift slide which contains the aperture sight, the binding screw, and a small pin which retains the binding screw. If the front and back halves of the slide aren't bent, there is a good chance that a worn binding screw is the problem. These can be purchased and swapped out. If you are going to dismantle the slide unit to replace the binding screw be careful when driving the small retaining pin in and out. Another point on the M1903 rear sight units; it is a good idea to grease the windage knob to facilitate free movement and avoid wear. A bit of grease here can actually help to tighten it up a bit.

P.S. The rear half of the slide is threaded to permit the binding screw to be tightened and loosened against the side of the leaf. There is a chance of the threads being stripped or boogered, in which case you would need to replace the part. If the rear half is bent it could affect the fit of the binding screw against the leaf as well. If bent, these can sometimes be straightened on an anvil or other flat steel surface by using a wide faced punch.
 
Last edited:
I completely rebuilt the rear sight on my MK1.

The worm screw that adjusts the windage can wear down with time and should be replaced if you notice that the windage of your groups shifts drastically especially at distance. Give the whole rear sight base a push left to right, it shouldn't have any easy give to it. If it moves either way easily you may need to replace the screw.

If you do decide to strip apart the sight and see what needs replacing, be careful with the small drift pin that holds the two rear sight plates together. That thing is small! I had to use a set of pliers to extract it after drifting it as far as it would go and then "ping" the pliers snapped shut and that thing disappeared into the ether of my basement, never to be found again lol :(

I am definitely not a fan of the sights on them though.

That being said it was probably the most accurate military surplus rifle I have ever shot. No exaggeration. They are outstanding rifles. Well worth the money if you can find one with a strong bore. And the .30-06 can drop anything with a heartbeat in North America and then some lol
 
The sights are a mixed blessing. They do suck eggs for fast use and at close range. At long range, they are easier to hit with than the sights on the M1, thanks to the fine blade and small aperture. The windage adjustment is also handy. Sure wouldn't want to take a rifle with those sights to war, though!
 
ok - sounds good, probably just wear on the slide for the sight ladder ... cheap enough to get a replacement. [I did actually grease the windage screw and teeth on the sight base, it just seemed 'appropriate' - but there'snothing wrong with that, it's nice and tight.

Thanks guys, gonna take her out again on Wed and see if I can figure out the peeps again.
 
When the US mobilized for WW1 it quickly adapted the P14 Enfield to the .30-06 and produced more than 2 M copies of the M1917 in less than 2 yrs. More US troops were issued with the M1917 than the M1903 in WW1. One of the big lessons from the M1917 experience was the superiority of it's aperture sight and well protected front sight in combat. This, plus the larger numbers of M1917s on hand at the end of WW1, caused the US to consider replacing the M1903 with the M1917 as the standard infantry rifle.

The fact that the US had a guaranteed production capability at Springfield Arsenal, plus the bias for the M1903s adjustable rear sight for peacetime target shooting, caused the US Army to stay with the M1903. There were actually experimental models of windage and elevation aperture rear sights for the M1903 tested in the 1920s, but budgetary considerations worked against this. As it was the M1903 soldiered on with it's original sights from 1903 until 1943 when the aperture sighted Model 03-A3 came into service. Limitations aside, the M1903 rear sight did stand the test of time and served well through WW1 and into early WW2.
 
Even before the US entered the Great War, they realized that the M1905 rear sight was inferior for combat use. They developed a couple of replacements, but the whole thing got shelved when they entered the war. The M1905 would not be so bad if it had a realistic battle sight zero. 547 yards is not practical. The '03's I have owned shoot so high at close ranges, it is ridiculous. The USMC improved the M1905 between the wars, with a larger aperture and higher, thicker front sight. You can buy replicas of these sights and improve your own '03.
 
BUSHMAN79 said:
Even before the US entered the Great War, they realized that the M1905 rear sight was inferior for combat use. They developed a couple of replacements, but the whole thing got shelved when they entered the war. The M1905 would not be so bad if it had a realistic battle sight zero. 547 yards is not practical. The '03's I have owned shoot so high at close ranges, it is ridiculous. The USMC improved the M1905 between the wars, with a larger aperture and higher, thicker front sight. You can buy replicas of these sights and improve your own '03.
Click to expand...

That "battle sight" is atrocious!

You can barely even make out the tip of the blade in that atomic scale notch in the ladder lol Even in the best lighting/target conditions with my young able eyes I could barely pick it up.

I did find the best aperture was obviously the circle peep sight. I shot very impressive groups with mine but it took a lot of focusing to the point of annoyance.
 
Most attempts to replace the fragile, expensive and over-elaborate M1905 sight foundered on lack of funds between the wars, the prospect of major surgery to the existing stock of rifles, and the knowledge that most of the war reserve stock was M1917s anyway, plus a semi-auto was in the works that would hopefully render the thing moot. As it turned out, they had to start making M1903s again just like the old ones, with all their faults, until the 'A3 modification was worked out which produced something that was at least optically better even if mechanically it left much to be desired.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom