1903 Turkish Mauser (Arabic Stampings)
- Thread starter TurkJohn
- Start date
Wow, very, very nice markings on that rifle. She looks like a 1903 model but I have never seen one with that type of work on the front end. I have a feeling the returning vet may have cut the barrel down for hunting purposes ?
Your rifle's serial number is on the bottom of the Fashi text on the receiver, I can translate it but not sure if you want it posted here.
The Sultan's property mark is on the top of the receiver and the year of the production is in the Arabic calender and looks like "1322" and translates back to a production date of 1904 in our calender.
Underneath that is the text, in fashi, for Mauser Oberndorf I believe.
Your rear sight is in fashi text and adjustable from 400m to 2000m in 100m increments.
The fashi text on the side of the rear sight denotes 600m to 2000m adjustment in 100m increments.
She is numbers matching and screams vet bring back from WW1.
There is also no evidence of being post war converted so I am certain the caliber is 7.65x53mm Mauser.
Your rifle's serial number is on the bottom of the Fashi text on the receiver, I can translate it but not sure if you want it posted here.
The Sultan's property mark is on the top of the receiver and the year of the production is in the Arabic calender and looks like "1322" and translates back to a production date of 1904 in our calender.
Underneath that is the text, in fashi, for Mauser Oberndorf I believe.
Your rear sight is in fashi text and adjustable from 400m to 2000m in 100m increments.
The fashi text on the side of the rear sight denotes 600m to 2000m adjustment in 100m increments.
She is numbers matching and screams vet bring back from WW1.
There is also no evidence of being post war converted so I am certain the caliber is 7.65x53mm Mauser.
Nabs, I disassembled it last night and found a few interesting things. Before I go into that I know from the family history that the Dr./vet fellow that brought this back just wasn`t into guns/hunting etc. and I doubt that he would have had this cut down or altered. The family said this always sat in his basement rafters for years until the last owner inherited it about 40 years ago and it has sat in his basement since then. Having said that I have been on so many sites researching mausers and they all talk about the cleaning rods being 10-121/4" long and are threaded into the rod recepticle and are in turn removed and 3 of them screwed together to make a full length rod. On the stock of my gun there is a metal insert apprx. 15 3/4" from the muzzle end that holds the rod. There is no evidence of an insert ever being in the stock any closer to the front to accomadate a10-12 1/4 rod. If it was sawed down 6" I`m thinking I would see an old insert to handle the shorter rod. The second thing is the rear sight being calibrated from 4-2000 where I`ve never seen a pic of another that is not 1-200. I was on a site weeks ago that said appx 5-10 % of these were manufactured in carbine model (23") barrell. The stock is stamped with the same serial # as the barrell. I also found some markings on the underneath side of the barrell, some random numbers, some Fashi, some our`s so I`ll try to get more pics of this,John
It is possible, the Turks had some interesting carbine variants.
Are you able to take close up pictures of the muzzle and off the bottom of the fore end ?
The 1903 I have has her full length cleaning rod, it is the type that does not require another cleaning rod to be connected.
Are you able to take close up pictures of the muzzle and off the bottom of the fore end ?
The 1903 I have has her full length cleaning rod, it is the type that does not require another cleaning rod to be connected.
Would a gunsmith be able to tell what caliber it is or would he need an actual 7.65 X 53 shell to try it? I understand it`s next to impossible to get ammo if that`s the cal. It turns out I need a 20" rod (apprx). Any way to get a repro that length? Are these rods metal?
A gun smith should be able to tell what caliber she is.
Hand loading shouldn't be an issue, I believe 7.65 Aregentian is a very similar round but it may like comparing .303 British to .303 Savage. Can anyone who has had experience reloading for this caliber confirm ?
Period cleaning rods of 20" may be difficult to find for your Turk as I have seen the 1893/1903 28" ones floating around.
Hand loading shouldn't be an issue, I believe 7.65 Aregentian is a very similar round but it may like comparing .303 British to .303 Savage. Can anyone who has had experience reloading for this caliber confirm ?
Period cleaning rods of 20" may be difficult to find for your Turk as I have seen the 1893/1903 28" ones floating around.
Wow!! That is an interesting little rifle... or carbine. Great markings.
x2 Those are some of the most unique markings I've ever seen.
The rifle is definitely a Model of 1903. Note the mid-length large-ring action, pear-shaped bolt kno
dead giveaways for the model. Also note the much longer than normal cockin-piece. Turkey bought a raft of these but, apart from a few for South America (Paraguay comes to mind, but evey chance I'm wrong.... operating from memory will do that to you), this mid-length action never became popular. When they were relieved for the 7.92x57 round, there was a clearance channel cut in the top of the receiver ring to acommoate the longer round. As this rifle does not have that cut, I would think likely it still is in the original 7.65x53 calibre.
Bore diameter is .303, groove diameter is .311, so you can check that much with a .303round.
Case body of the 7.65 is almost identical to that of the 7.62 NATO. Why the Yanks didn't just adopt that identical-performance, lower-pressure round is beyond me. Guess they wanted lots of pressure. 'Everybody knows' that high pressure automatically gives you a superior cartridge. Right? Yeah.
Brass is available from Norma and Partizan. Trade-Ex has Partizan in stock at this time. I have heard of people just using fired .308W brass and sizing it; gives you a slightly-short neck which lengthens as it is shot. Ballistically, the cartrige is a rimless .303 and most .303 loads are safe in it.
These rifles all were supposed to have been converted to 7.92x57 in the 1930s, yet this one has NO rework marks and it HAS the Sultan's tughra in place. These were invariably removed during rework.
The receiver-ring legend will be in Turkish but using their modified Arabic script. This also was done away with before the big rebuild program got underway. Likely it will credit DWM with the manufacture of the rifle.
For my money, the rifle is a World War ONE bringback. Who do you know of who was in the Palestine Expeditionary Force of the Imperial Army? That's who brought it back.
.
dead giveaways for the model. Also note the much longer than normal cockin-piece. Turkey bought a raft of these but, apart from a few for South America (Paraguay comes to mind, but evey chance I'm wrong.... operating from memory will do that to you), this mid-length action never became popular. When they were relieved for the 7.92x57 round, there was a clearance channel cut in the top of the receiver ring to acommoate the longer round. As this rifle does not have that cut, I would think likely it still is in the original 7.65x53 calibre.Bore diameter is .303, groove diameter is .311, so you can check that much with a .303round.
Case body of the 7.65 is almost identical to that of the 7.62 NATO. Why the Yanks didn't just adopt that identical-performance, lower-pressure round is beyond me. Guess they wanted lots of pressure. 'Everybody knows' that high pressure automatically gives you a superior cartridge. Right? Yeah.
Brass is available from Norma and Partizan. Trade-Ex has Partizan in stock at this time. I have heard of people just using fired .308W brass and sizing it; gives you a slightly-short neck which lengthens as it is shot. Ballistically, the cartrige is a rimless .303 and most .303 loads are safe in it.
These rifles all were supposed to have been converted to 7.92x57 in the 1930s, yet this one has NO rework marks and it HAS the Sultan's tughra in place. These were invariably removed during rework.
The receiver-ring legend will be in Turkish but using their modified Arabic script. This also was done away with before the big rebuild program got underway. Likely it will credit DWM with the manufacture of the rifle.
For my money, the rifle is a World War ONE bringback. Who do you know of who was in the Palestine Expeditionary Force of the Imperial Army? That's who brought it back.
.
Smellie, I am impressed with your knowledge of these mausers. I haven`t got a clue of what these (technical ) terms are that you speak of. I handload 38/357 but haven`t reloaded rifle brass and never had to get into sizing brass etc. I am a guy who buys a gun and ammo, shoots at the range a bit, cleans my guns now and then and that`s about what I know about firearms. I am overwhelmed by what you speak of. I wish I lived close enough to be able to show you this gun in person. Thanks for your input. By the way what`s your thought as to this being cut down from 29"? Thx, John
I have an M1903 in the original 7.65 calibre. I have made up brass from 270 or 30-06, as per Donnelly's "Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions".
The rifle is definitely a Model of 1903. Note the mid-length large-ring action, pear-shaped bolt kno
Bore diameter is .303, groove diameter is .311, so you can check that much with a .303round.
Case body of the 7.65 is almost identical to that of the 7.62 NATO. Why the Yanks didn't just adopt that identical-performance, lower-pressure round is beyond me. Guess they wanted lots of pressure. 'Everybody knows' that high pressure automatically gives you a superior cartridge. Right? Yeah.
Brass is available from Norma and Partizan. Trade-Ex has Partizan in stock at this time. I have heard of people just using fired .308W brass and sizing it; gives you a slightly-short neck which lengthens as it is shot. Ballistically, the cartrige is a rimless .303 and most .303 loads are safe in it.
These rifles all were supposed to have been converted to 7.92x57 in the 1930s, yet this one has NO rework marks and it HAS the Sultan's tughra in place. These were invariably removed during rework.
The receiver-ring legend will be in Turkish but using their modified Arabic script. This also was done away with before the big rebuild program got underway. Likely it will credit DWM with the manufacture of the rifle.
For my money, the rifle is a World War ONE bringback. Who do you know of who was in the Palestine Expeditionary Force of the Imperial Army? That's who brought it back.
.
This firearm has the hallmarks of being a "sporter" as opposed to having been modified by an arsenal. I can't prove that's it's a sporter, but unless at least one other identical example can be found (several would be more compelling) and at least one of those can have its modification traced back to an arsenal, as opposed to an individual or a business, you can't assume otherwise. The onus is on proving it's an arsenal-produced firearm, not that it's a sporter, which at this point is all it can be considered.
The guy that brought this back was an Army Dr. and from what the family tells me was absolutely no hunter/shooter nor was the only other owner (The fellow I got it from) in fact this guy never ever heard of a pal. He came upon it in his uncles basement (the Dr.`s brother) when he inherited the estate. I`m certainly not doubting your knowledge Andy I`m just telling you what I know about it. The other thing is the rear sight being in Arabic and going from 400- 2000. I haven`t seen another rear sight that isn`t 100-2000. John
4b1t, You are right on the money. The fellow who brought it back was in the Indian Medical Service in Rangoon. His name was Lt. Col. Roy C. Phelps and was the medical superintendent. He was there when the Japanese forced them out.
