1911: 9mm or .45?

domyalex said:
The .40 seems like a neat idea. But I understand that the Norc double stack uses some proprietary trigger, right? Any other affordable 1911 .40 out there? (less than say CAD$ 800).

Cheers
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To give you a ball park, I bought a used Springfield 1911 40 off the EE for $430, it needed a barrel and a guy at my club happened to have an match bull barrel for about 200, had it installed for a 100ish can't really remember. Once I found the right mags it has been working flawlessly.
 
.45 is not so hard to handle

similar to you, I'm not the biggest guy and shooting .45 is not a problem and i don't have big hands and large pipes....
I first starting shoot'n i rented various guns at my club, mostly the CZ 9mm .... and really like it, then rented and shot 1911 .45 and (i was still new at this time) and didn't feel comfortable with this larger felt recoil and wasn't impressed....so back to renting and shoot'n cz ... i became very comfortable shoot'n period (overall experience) and was sooo sure i'm now buying a cz... it is a nice gun ! well, then i rented the 1911 again just to try it and have some fun...just before i was going to head to the front counter and order my beloved CZ .... :eek: well, i shot the 1911 very accurate (more so then cz) and it didn't feel like a bad boy gun anymore :eek: i shot very well with it and it felt just right......so, i ran to the counter and bought a Colt 1911 .45 (plain parkerized finish) that was in the display.... Before my last casing hit the Ground :eek:

And never looked back .... i've shot it in ipsc since 1995 and have modified it many times thru-out the years and with lightening the loads down to 175 - 180 power factor, it doesn't really have much of kick, recoil is kinda slower and very managable and playing with springs and grips, etc... you can make it a very sweet gun to shoot...but it is more expesive to reload than .40 or 9mm.... so if cost is realy a factor, that's something to consider...

So, yes Man Up :p and after a few thousand rounds you'll likely get very comfortable shootin ....
Seriously, the gun has to feel right and if so, you'll shoot it well
i find the .40 has snappier recoil than the .45...
I've never owned or remember shoot'n 1911 in 9mm, so no advise... i'm sure if quality brand name, it'll be fine.
and you can shoot it for cheaper in production, and always change equipment when and if you want to move up to .45 later

if costs are a serious issue...you find the balance of whats right for you.... any caliber you choose, you'll get use to and better with it and practice and practice, which costs $$

I never did get a CZ which i regret, its a nice gun to have in my collection...hopefully one day...
you can buy belt and pouches that can be modified to hold single stack or d.stack mags and stuff, so if ever upgraded, the gear stays the same and only need to change gun and dies....

There are so many avenues to go or change or upgrade in IPSC (if you go this way, I recommend u do), but don't worry about them now, if you want to just get in it fo rnow, go production andget going for now and you'll learn more and find your way and choose your path when you want.

I suggest buying a quality known name brand.

Have fun....:)
 
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You can reduce perceived recoil in a 45 by tailoring your loads. I've always found a heavier bullet pushed by a fast powder to be softer shooting than a lighter bullet loaded to the same PF.

That being said, 9mm would be more economical to shoot. Perhaps a 40 would be the best compromise?
 
mlehtovaara said:
Firstly what are you killing with a handgun in canada?

What do you think the purpose of a handgun was for, paperpunching?

Secondly, and thirdly the OP already knows he is going with the 9mm so these points mean nothing.

I wasn't refering them to you, just gives him an even broader horizon before purchasing

Also there has never in my limited library of knowledge, ever been a 9mm 1911 in service.

Never said there was a 9mm 1911 except a few South American armies but they don't count right? but the model in .45ACP was the only one :rolleyes:

And lastly since it is illegal to carry in canada, and you can get 10 round .45 mags anyways this point means nothing.

I guess you'll remain a range only commando, even if judgement day ever comes..

Now I say go for .45. If you are reloading anyhow money isn't the issue. I own both and like the .45 better.

You sound a man of severe experience, you an IPSC god by any chance?

More versatility in the loads,

9mm has the same versatility at half the price which double the amount of ammo on par to the .45

and the larger cases are easier to handle when reloading for me, as well as primers. Not a big deal but really there is only small differences to talk about.

Why reload when you can buy bulk surplus in 9mm

Recoil is very different between 9mm and .45 but I find follow up shots are easier on the .45 as there is not so much muzzle flip, as there is a push straight back.

Bud, you need to have a coffee..

But really it comes down to the .45 just being a f in huge round and a huge barrel to look at. It is simply the awesome factor that wins the battle here. For the money an Armco tuned 1911 with some upgrades would be a very good choice. YOu could also find a used sprinfield, or para but they are at the top of your price range, and wouldn't leave any room for trigger work or customization

Yeah I know ARMCO makes good mods, give your Norc or Springfield 1911 300rds & things will lighten up very nicely :cheers: .
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After my friend's Norinco slide came shooting off the back of his gun and hit him in the face, neither I (nor he) will ever consider shooting a Norinco again.

However, gun choice aside, I would avoid .45 for a couple of reasons.

1. If you're not reloading, .45 factory ammo is G.D. expensive. 9mm surplus ammo is quite a bit cheaper.
2. If you are reloading, .45 bullets are quite a bit more expensive than 9mm bullets, and .45 brass is a LOT harder to find in quantity than 9mm brass.

In terms of versatility, sure, the .45 is better. My friend used to load hot rounds for bowling pin matches, but was also able to load down to puff loads for steel matches. However, Moe also pointed out that .40 should also be an option. Readily available brass, can shoot major power loads, maybe just harder to find a 1911 chambered in .40 from the factory.

As for pressure, I would be less worried about the stresses on a 1911 imparted due to 38 super/9mm. Many of those tests were done many, many moons ago. (I can't remember when I read about New Detonics Combatmasters last....the 80's?) Quality control is generally way better now, and the ability of the guns to withstand stress is generally a lot better, too (although my friend with the Norinco would disagree...)

Good luck, and don't cheap out too much on your choice...you only end up paying for it in the long run.
 
PH, it was some HK shootem up and i think the dialogue would have made a great drinking game if you do a shot every time they say "double tap".
colt45gunner, I think the discussion was about major loads in a 45;).
 
hungrybeagle said:
After my friend's Norinco slide came shooting off the back of his gun and hit him in the face, neither I (nor he) will ever consider shooting a Norinco again.

However, gun choice aside, I would avoid .45 for a couple of reasons.

1. If you're not reloading, .45 factory ammo is G.D. expensive. 9mm surplus ammo is quite a bit cheaper.
2. If you are reloading, .45 bullets are quite a bit more expensive than 9mm bullets, and .45 brass is a LOT harder to find in quantity than 9mm brass.

In terms of versatility, sure, the .45 is better. My friend used to load hot rounds for bowling pin matches, but was also able to load down to puff loads for steel matches. However, Moe also pointed out that .40 should also be an option. Readily available brass, can shoot major power loads, maybe just harder to find a 1911 chambered in .40 from the factory.

As for pressure, I would be less worried about the stresses on a 1911 imparted due to 38 super/9mm. Many of those tests were done many, many moons ago. (I can't remember when I read about New Detonics Combatmasters last....the 80's?) Quality control is generally way better now, and the ability of the guns to withstand stress is generally a lot better, too (although my friend with the Norinco would disagree...)

Good luck, and don't cheap out too much on your choice...you only end up paying for it in the long run.
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So how exactly does the slide come straight back...
That would imply that either the slide stop or the barrel link broke and you probably lost the extractor or broke the slide or frame itself....

I've heard this story but never seen pictures of it with the gun being totally destroyed and that usually is as a result of a bad load...... Since the thing is on rails and there is some stuff in the way of it coming straight back I can't understand how it would happen...

I have heard of them going forward.... with a broken slide stop..
 
The top half of the slide split away from the bottom half of the slide, at the part forward of the dustcover. The slide impacted my friend just to one side of his nose.

He was very lucky. An inch lower and he would have been spitting teeth, an inch higher and it probably would have hit his glasses. Nobody knows whether his glasses would have held up against that much metal coming back.
 
Buy a quality brand !

hungrybeagle said:
The top half of the slide split away from the bottom half of the slide, at the part forward of the dustcover. The slide impacted my friend just to one side of his nose.
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Just to further advise to buy a know quality brand name for whatever type of gun you buy !!

I've been shoot'n my Colt model 1991 A1 since Jan. '94 and mostly for ipsc...probably over 50,000 rnds. (of all kinds including many factory at the begining)....
thru the stock slide and frame and barrel for 90% of that....and only thing to ever break so far is the extractor...just..hmmm...i think last year...and i have not shot much lately.

I love my Colt :D
 
mrclean said:
PH, it was some HK shootem up and i think the dialogue would have made a great drinking game if you do a shot every time they say "double tap".
colt45gunner, I think the discussion was about major loads in a 45;).
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BEST MOVIE EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Shoot out in a mall with Open guns and race rigs, Cinematic Genius.

Love my 9mm 1911 get all the fun of a skinny with cheaper ammo costs. I use STEEL HAWK hollow points to make sure the targets stay down when I hit them
 
Generally speaking, the 1911 is most likely to provide trouble-free service in its original configuration: 5" barrel, .45 ACP, single stack. This is not to say that 9mm 1911s cannot be reliable.

The 9mm 1911 makes the most sense for the non-reloader who wants an inexpensive to feed paper puncher. If you reload, the cost to reload .45 with cast bullets is not much higher than for 9mm. Light target loads can be put together for the .45 that have very mild recoil.

Personally, I prefer the 1911 in the original .45 chambering, but I can see where some would find the 9mm configuration desirable.
 
I've got one of each, both single stacks on Colt frames. I've shot very casual, club-level IPSC with both of them.

As has been said, the nine is easier to handle at full-load levels. As has also been said, an A counts for five points be it minor or major. With all that said sh*t being said, if the Wretched Excess Police came 'round and told me I had to choose one, just one, of the pair, the choice would be easy: I'd keep the .45. Because I can load a .45 to safely, and utterly reliably, shoot IPSC minor creampuff loads, and the next day, I can be spitting USGI exploding armor-piercing tracer hardball out of it with just a recoil spring change. Ain't no way, though, that I can expect .45 ACP ballistics from a 9mm Luger without a research grant and a depleted uranium protective cup around my face. And I won't be getting .45 ACP hole diameter out of a nine without bending most of the known laws of physics.

When given the choice, go with the most accommodating orifice.
 
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