1911 9mm question

ivan said:
If you find an STI Spartan in 9mm: grab it.
They are now discontinued and are (IMHO) the best valued 1911 9mm. Yes: the Trojan is nicer, but the price value of the Spartan makes up for it.

Note: My perspective on 1911s is from a "I want to shoot it a lot" state of mind. The Spartan is not pretty.

-ivan-[/QUOTE

Freedom ventures still has Spartans in 9 mm in stock .And yes, they are ugly but work well.For the price they are a very good deal, it's a pity that sti dropped them from their lineup
Click to expand...
 
I have an STI Sentry that is the sweetest 9mm 1911 i've used to date. Have shot kimber, norinco, smith and wesson, STI sentry and night hawk. I've seen a few kimber 9's that had issues untill being played with, the rest ran well out of the box. Well, once i threw away the norc mags the norc ran flawless....but the mags are execrable.
 
sevoman said:
What's better about the 38 super over the 9mm?Although the super is ahead balllistically when it comes to paper punching here in Canada that doesn't make any difference.Where the 9mm is better is that it's way cheaper to shoot and reload(and super is pretty much a reloading only option),brass is plentiful and cheap( free)while super brass is very expensive when you can find it.To reach the supers full potential you need twice the amount of a slow burning powder than in the 9 so that adds cost as well

I own 1911s in 22,9mm,38 super and 45 and for a new shooter I think it makes perfect sense to start off with a 9 mm,lots cheaper to shoot,less recoil ,so easier to learn to shoot well.


Personally I have a sti Spartan which I really enjoy shooting and although sti doesn't produce them anymore they can still be found new at pretty good prices
Click to expand...

It's not just my opinion, every major publication on the 1911 and a large number of prominent gun writes state it probably the best round in a 1911. You answered your own question, superior ballistics, and it does matter in Canada because the last time I looked punching paper is what we get to do with our handguns. I'll agree that 9mm is cost effective, and stated so by saying reloading would be a plus if the poster went 38 super. It was a simple post stating my opinion.
 
Cocked&Locked said:
I have an STI Sentry that is the sweetest 9mm 1911 i've used to date. Have shot kimber, norinco, smith and wesson, STI sentry and night hawk. I've seen a few kimber 9's that had issues untill being played with, the rest ran well out of the box. Well, once i threw away the norc mags the norc ran flawless....but the mags are execrable.
Click to expand...

The sentry is an awesome pistol but you are in the $2000 territory. It's comes loaded with features but I think it's discontinued .
 
1911's in 9mm are some of the nicest shooting guns around. I'm a bit biased with my Trojan but I highly recommend them in whatever price-level you can find.

That said, there are some issues that you should be aware of in my experience.

10rd Mags - If you choose to get 10rd mags, make sure they fit the gun properly and don't hit the ejector when inserted all the way. Mine did and I ended up having to replace a broken ejector. This is best checked by removing the slide, inserting a loaded mag (dummy rounds recommended) into the frame and checking the fit closely. You want to make sure no part of the mag or the top round round hits the ejector. If there is contact, either have the ejector shaped properly or switch makers of the mags.

Otherwise, it's a great combination of gun and round that is totally awesome and reasonably affordable to shoot.

Cheers,

MarkT
 
Antoine22 said:
The sentry is an awesome pistol but you are in the $2000 territory. It's comes loaded with features but I think it's discontinued .
Click to expand...

no, it's the trojan that is being discontinued. It was the only pistol they where building on an imported frame; i believe from the phillipines. Now they build everything with US only components.
 
grumpyold said:
It's not just my opinion, every major publication on the 1911 and a large number of prominent gun writes state it probably the best round in a 1911. You answered your own question, superior ballistics, and it does matter in Canada because the last time I looked punching paper is what we get to do with our handguns. I'll agree that 9mm is cost effective, and stated so by saying reloading would be a plus if the poster went 38 super. It was a simple post stating my opinion.
Click to expand...

I've never seen anyone say that 38 super was the best chambering in a 1911, in 35 years of reading firearms periodicals and authors from Jeff Cooper to Patrick Sweeny. The only thing it was really good for was IPSC where you could carry a larger capacity mag then you you could with 45 or 40 and still make major, with lots of high pressure muzzle gas to run a comp. Unless you want to run at over 1300 fps, the 9mm will do every single thing the 38 super will do, and do it cheaper as it burns less powder, and generally more reliably as it's a rimless case where the 38 super is semi-rimmed.

It's loud, a pain to find factory ammo for, loud, slightly more expensive to load, loud, and the brass is expensive. Did i mention its' F@#$@#$ loud?

It's one cartridge i don't own a handgun for, and have NO plans to acquire on. If i need a hot semi auto round i'll get a 10 mm, otherwise it's inferior to 357....so can't be bothered. A simple post stating my opinion.
 
Cocked&Locked said:
no, it's the trojan that is being discontinued. It was the only pistol they where building on an imported frame; i believe from the phillipines. Now they build everything with US only components.
Click to expand...

Actually, it's the STI Spartan that has been discontinued. It was built with an imported frame from Armscor in the Philippines. The Trojan uses entirely US-made components and is still in STI's current lineup.

Cheers,

MarkT
 
Cocked&Locked said:
I've never seen anyone say that 38 super was the best chambering in a 1911, in 35 years of reading firearms periodicals and authors from Jeff Cooper to Patrick Sweeny. The only thing it was really good for was IPSC where you could carry a larger capacity mag then you you could with 45 or 40 and still make major, with lots of high pressure muzzle gas to run a comp. Unless you want to run at over 1300 fps, the 9mm will do every single thing the 38 super will do, and do it cheaper as it burns less powder, and generally more reliably as it's a rimless case where the 38 super is semi-rimmed.

It's loud, a pain to find factory ammo for, loud, slightly more expensive to load, loud, and the brass is expensive. Did i mention its' F@#$@#$ loud?

It's one cartridge i don't own a handgun for, and have NO plans to acquire on. If i need a hot semi auto round i'll get a 10 mm, otherwise it's inferior to 357....so can't be bothered. A simple post stating my opinion.
Click to expand...

Shooters Guide to the 1911- Robert K Campbell-" The 38 super is as reliable as a 45acp in a quality handgun. There is some evidence the Super is the most reliable of all 1911 calibers."
Shooting Times Technical Editor- George Nonte- " The 38 super is the finest all-round auto pistol cartridge in existence, far out stripping the 9 mm parabellum and 45 acp in effectiveness and lethality."
Shooting Times Model 1911-Layne Simpson- " During the 1970's, Jim Clark, John Nowlin, and other barrel makers head spaced the 38 Super on the mouth of it's case and so transformed what had been an inaccurate dud into a screaming tack driver. How accurate can it be? Back in the early 1990's, I asked five top-ranked gunsmiths to name the cartridge they would choose if given the opportunity to enter a million dollar contest with the most accurate 1911 taking home the prize. Every one chose the 38 Super."
Higginsons- Win Brass-100pcs. 9mm- $26.50. 38 Super+p- $26.00
.355 bullets various -90Gr to 147GR.
Load? wear ear protection.
Would you like more?
 
Cocked&Locked said:
I've never seen anyone say that 38 super was the best chambering in a 1911, in 35 years of reading firearms periodicals and authors from Jeff Cooper to Patrick Sweeny. The only thing it was really good for was IPSC where you could carry a larger capacity mag then you you could with 45 or 40 and still make major, with lots of high pressure muzzle gas to run a comp. Unless you want to run at over 1300 fps, the 9mm will do every single thing the 38 super will do, and do it cheaper as it burns less powder, and generally more reliably as it's a rimless case where the 38 super is semi-rimmed.

It's loud, a pain to find factory ammo for, loud, slightly more expensive to load, loud, and the brass is expensive. Did i mention its' F@#$@#$ loud?

It's one cartridge i don't own a handgun for, and have NO plans to acquire on. If i need a hot semi auto round i'll get a 10 mm, otherwise it's inferior to 357....so can't be bothered. A simple post stating my opinion.
Click to expand...

Shooters Guide to the 1911- Robert K Campbell-" The 38 super is as reliable as a 45acp in a quality handgun. There is some evidence the Super is the most reliable of all 1911 calibers."
Shooting Times Technical Editor- George Nonte- " The 38 super is the finest all-round auto pistol cartridge in existence, far out stripping the 9 mm parabellum and 45 acp in effectiveness and lethality."
Shooting Times Model 1911-Layne Simpson- " During the 1970's, Jim Clark, John Nowlin, and other barrel makers head spaced the 38 Super on the mouth of it's case and so transformed what had been an inaccurate dud into a screaming tack driver. How accurate can it be? Back in the early 1990's, I asked five top-ranked gunsmiths to name the cartridge they would choose if given the opportunity to enter a million dollar contest with the most accurate 1911 taking home the prize. Every one chose the 38 Super."
Higginsons- Win Brass-100pcs. 9mm- $26.50. 38 Super+p- $26.00
.355 bullets various -90Gr to 147GR.
Loud? wear ear protection.
Would like more?
 
Cocked&Locked said:
no, it's the trojan that is being discontinued. It was the only pistol they where building on an imported frame; i believe from the phillipines. Now they build everything with US only components.
Click to expand...

they are still making the trojan. the sentry was indeed discontinued.
 
markt said:
Actually, it's the STI Spartan that has been discontinued. It was built with an imported frame from Armscor in the Philippines. The Trojan uses entirely US-made components and is still in STI's current lineup.

Cheers,

MarkT
Click to expand...

There still maybe a few Spartan's left in the system to be had ...a very good buy and well made.
 
O
grumpyold said:
Shooters Guide to the 1911- Robert K Campbell-" The 38 super is as reliable as a 45acp in a quality handgun. There is some evidence the Super is the most reliable of all 1911 calibers."
Shooting Times Technical Editor- George Nonte- " The 38 super is the finest all-round auto pistol cartridge in existence, far out stripping the 9 mm parabellum and 45 acp in effectiveness and lethality."
Shooting Times Model 1911-Layne Simpson- " During the 1970's, Jim Clark, John Nowlin, and other barrel makers head spaced the 38 Super on the mouth of it's case and so transformed what had been an inaccurate dud into a screaming tack driver. How accurate can it be? Back in the early 1990's, I asked five top-ranked gunsmiths to name the cartridge they would choose if given the opportunity to enter a million dollar contest with the most accurate 1911 taking home the prize. Every one chose the 38 Super."
Higginsons- Win Brass-100pcs. 9mm- $26.50. 38 Super+p- $26.00
.355 bullets various -90Gr to 147GR.
Loud? wear ear protection.
Would like more?
Click to expand...

Those are interesting ( although dated)quotes from well respected authorities( some deceased)but it still doesn't really help out the op in deciding his first calibre for a 1911.i don't think the op is considering " lethality"in deciding what 1911 to first purchase
The 38 super is a good calibre, I've shot one since the early 90s,probably reloaded 50k or so over the years,so I think I know it reasonably well.I still consider it to be a poor choice for someone's first 1911.
Your cost analysis of 9mm vs 38super is well taken but fails to mention that there is no cheap bulk around for super for non reloaders, the super uses about twice the amount of powder than the 9 to reach its potential( yes you can load it down with tight group to shoot economically, but then you may as well shoot a 9),the cost of new brass is about the same,but you can pick up 9 mil brass for free on the range in bucket loads,I must have about 5k that I've picked up over the years, I don't think I've ever paid a cent for 9 mil brass,38 super brass,not so much, not much of that gets left lying around.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom