1911 FTE Problem

Sorry, I just don't see what the magazine has to do with a failure to extract.
If the fired case remains, or is only partially extracted from the chamber, the extractor is not doing its job.



Is the extractor free to move in its slot?
Could there be a bit of dirt at the bottom of the slot, preventing the hook from engaging the case rim fully?
Are there extractor marks on the case rim, in the area of contact?
Is there sufficient spring tension on the extractor?
Is the extractor hook broken/chipped/dirty?
 
Halger280HVMag said:
Sorry, I just don't see what the magazine has to do with a failure to extract.
If the fired case remains, or is only partially extracted from the chamber, the extractor is not doing its job.



Is the extractor free to move in its slot?
Could there be a bit of dirt at the bottom of the slot, preventing the hook from engaging the case rim fully?
Are there extractor marks on the case rim, in the area of contact?
Is there sufficient spring tension on the extractor?
Is the extractor hook broken/chipped/dirty?
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Right but on an earlier post he said if he only had one round in the mag everything ran normal.
 
Think of it in slow motion.
After the shot, the extractor claw grabs the case as the slide begins to move. By the time the slide gets to about 75% of it's stroke the empty case should be fully extracted. The ejector hits the case rim on the edge and starts to move the case sideways towards the port. The next round in the mag is held in place until the slide gets to it's full rearward travel. By the time the fresh round moves up into feeding position, the spent case should be long gone. If it's not gone, you've got an extractor problem.
 
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As you say viper, the next round is held in its place until the slide get to its rear most position. Correct assuming the next round is held in its place, I postulate that it is not held there, so when I try to drop a mag with rounds in they bind on something and will not release the mag, and when it does release sometimes the round falls out of maxwell, so I infer that the top most round is perhaps pushing up past where it should be held in its position for the slide to peel it, and instead wedging against the casing the extractor is attempting to remove as it passes and I fact jarring the brass off the extractor at that point, leaving the appearance in the photos.as I said I can not get a hold of an extra 9 mm mag to attemp it with another type till later this week. Thanks again all, it still seems to be a bit of a concern, if you try the exercise I mentioned with any autoloader you have I suspect that your mag will drop free after racking one round, if it does, then I suspect that my problem should have nothing to do with the extractor, or as misanthropist suggests, I have a myriad of problems. I am certainly hoping with a new pistol, that I am experiencing only what seems to be often a problem with 1911's and perhaps more so with 9mm ones a magazine problem. And not numerous ones, as I hope the most obvious answer is the correct one, ie. One thing causing the other..... Mag causing FTE.
 
Although mine is a colt in 45acp I put two empties in a mag, fed one and then slowly racked the slide back. By the looks of it it seems like it could theoretically (probably not likely) hit the next round. From the original pics it looks almost as if the ejecting round's rim crashed into the next rounds case mouth. Although that would likely dent it, and have other evidence to see.

I'm not too sure now at this point I'd still think extractor is most likely.
 
tag129 said:
Takes 1000 rds to break in.
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Sigs don't need 1000 to break in... lol...

The extractor on my Sig target model is made by EGW

I would send it back, never had 1 issue with mine.... I have over 5000 rounds thru it now .... its 4 years old I think....
 
Stugotsnutz said:
No problem slide runs fine when empty mag is inserted.

And thanks Wayne, the logic seemed sound, but began to question.

Not ready to send it back just yet misanthropist , have a call into md charlton, still hoping just mag problem.
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Ok, 'cause if the empty mag made the slide difficult to pull back (which it shouldn't) then I would guess that something ain't right with the way the mags are being seated and the drag would cause the slide not to cycle. It doesn't take a lot of force to hold back the slide from cycling. The lip of the mag's floor plate would hit the bottom of the frontstrap and prevent it from seating any deeper.

If the mags aren't dropping free, you might want to remove the mag release and see if there aren't any burrs on it. It's possible that the mag release needs a little bit of fitting. I had a similar issue with my SA 1911 where the mags wouldn't drop free. A light touchup on the catch and it inserts and drops free smoothly now. The mag should "pop" free under the follower spring's tension when the mag release is pressed . You shouldn't have to pull on the mag with force to remove it. Worst case, with a tight fitted mag release, you should still be able to remove the mag with ease.

A full mag might be pretty snug and require a bit of force to cycle the slide in order to chamber a round but usually the next round it shouldn't be too difficult. It's possible you have two problems going on here, or maybe just one. It's possible that something is causing extra friction on the slide and preventing it from fully cycling. The pics you had with the slide open, did you manually pull the slide back and lock it after the FTE or is that the actual position of the slide immediately after the FTE?

Then again, if the extractor was getting a solid bite on the spent case, it would have pulled it out of the chamber, if not at least partially.

Hard to fully diagnose over the internet but I'd suggest doing the easiest option first, buy a different brand of magazine and try it again. Failing that, send it back for warranty work.
 
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Thanks again, the mag releases perfectly when empty, ie one round in mag, rack , drop mag, perfect no friction. Perfect with slide and mag. Load mag full or part, rack, drop mag, no release, out about half inch, must pull out, top round usually twisted up, or falls out free after mag. Slide worked fine to load round.
The photos, are right after FTE slide could not return due to position of round from top of mag. To clear had to lock slide open, release mag, and pull out as it does not drop free, due to jam, rack and brass is ejected. Load mag, and repeat the pleasure, some times goes bang. If not repeat as above.
 
Stugotsnutz said:
Thanks again, the mag releases perfectly when empty, ie one round in mag, rack , drop mag, perfect no friction. Perfect with slide and mag. Load mag full or part, rack, drop mag, no release, out about half inch, must pull out, top round usually twisted up, or falls out free after mag. Slide worked fine to load round.
The photos, are right after FTE slide could not return due to position of round from top of mag. To clear had to lock slide open, release mag, and pull out as it does not drop free, due to jam, rack and brass is ejected. Load mag, and repeat the pleasure, some times goes bang. If not repeat as above.
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I had 2 out of five Wilson Combat mags act sort of like that. Before fine tuning my mag release, on an empty mag or just 3-4rnds in it, it would drop free. Once it was loaded to 10rnds, it would swell the sides of the mag just enough not to drop free. After fine tuning the mag release, all the mags drop free under their own weight.
 
If possible can you take a picture of the frame only from the top .

If it was me I would start with the extractor , other problems you have will need their time and can wait { mags not dropping .... }
Please disassemble the extractor and see what is going on with it. if that is ok check if the spring/ springs are missing .
Please measure with your trigger pull gauge and a cut off 9mm case how much pressure it takes to remove that from the extractor hook.
Cut the base of the 9mm , remove the slide , insert the base of the 9mm shell on the extractor hook , put the hook of the trigger gouge and try to remove it from the extractor by pulling upwards.

You expect to have something like 16 oz on your trigger gouge as you try to remove the cut 9mm shell from the extractor hook.
If that is ok than move forward with magazine inspection and try out different ones .


last please post a picture of your frame without the slide on it ...
 
The pistol is fired.
The slide begins to travel rearward and starts to extract the case from the chamber.
After a short distance travelled, the extractor disengages from the case rim. For whatever reason to be determined.
The slide continues its journey rearward, cocking the hammer.
The recoil spring goes into action, and the slide is returning forward to strip the top round from the magazine.
The top round goes forward, however its progress is halted by the presence of the partially extracted case.
That's evident in the photo.
The top round is now jammed forward on the feed ramp and up into the case. the gun is jammed.
Because the top round is still being grasped by the magazine lips at the same time.
The magazine will not drop free.

2 cents Eh!

Stugotsnutz said:
Also.....
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Halger280HVMag said:
The pistol is fired.
The slide begins to travel rearward and starts to extract the case from the chamber.
After a short distance travelled, the extractor disengages from the case rim. For whatever reason to be determined.
The slide continues its journey rearward, cocking the hammer.
The recoil spring goes into action, and the slide is returning forward to strip the top round from the magazine.
The top round goes forward, however its progress is halted by the presence of the partially extracted case.
That's evident in the photo.
The top round is now jammed forward on the feed ramp and up into the case. the gun is jammed.
Because the top round is still being grasped by the magazine lips at the same time.
The magazine will not drop free.

2 cents Eh!
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This makes the most sense. Bringing us back to extractor problems.
 
Waynetheman said:
This makes the most sense. Bringing us back to extractor problems.
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Exactly
9mm is a tough sell in the 1911 platform. Just like the 38 super was. Much happier in 45, 10mm or 40. They are fully capable of reliability but most will require tuning. Remember it's not a Glock, it's Glock's Great Grand-Daddy. My 9mm Trojan was just about perfect out of the box, but within 1000 rounds I started to have extraction failures. Not the same as your Sig, but I cured it with an Aftec extractor. Ran like a champ ever since. For what its worth, the 1911 can also be fussy about 9mm ammo. Mine only likes FMJ. Anything else nosedives into the feed ramp. It just needs tuning, they all do.
 
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Thanks viper, does make sense, but what about single round drill, slide is forward try to remove mag, does not drop free, this is surely not an extractor problem, so now I have a mag adjustment problem, as well as extractor problem. Does your pistol not drop a mag when loaded, slide forward, ie. Load and make ready....rack , chambered round, drop mag......but ,does not drop to reload full mag, must be pulled out. The odds of this being unrelated to the extraction, are unbelievable to me, if the top most round is jamming in the previous circumstance, could the round not be high enough to knock the round off of the extractor on the slides way back? LOL, does this logic only manifest in my mind or is not conceivable.
 
No, the next round of the mag Will NOT interfere or block the path the brass coming out , you empty brass is on the bridge face and the next round on the mag is under the bottom rib of the slide .

What you showing us on the picture is the after the fact that the brass has not ejected at that point the slide has already gone back and pushed the next round forward.

The empty mags typically have less pressure on the follower and if it rubs a bit against the frame or the mag release will hang up .You should be able to see rubbing marks on the mag by now those are the points that could be hammered lightly with a brass hammer . The profile of the magazine follower has also lots to do with how the empty mag falls from the magazine well. But this is completely unrelated to double feed you are experiencing.
 
reason for the brass not to eject

1 extractor damage
2 extractor tension
3 broken ejector { that is why I asked you to show a picture of the frame }
4 heavy recoil spring
5 to light of the load for that recoil spring setup .

good luck
 
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