1911 help. reduce recoil ,faster target acquisition ??

lone ranger

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I want to speed up my 1911 45 acp for target acquisition . What grain of bullet should I run, and at what speed, or powder charge should I have ?. I want lower recoil. Does a "muzzle break "compensator" help ?"
I am running stock18lb recoil, and shooting 230gr with 4.0gr of bullseye powder. I have a nice light crisp trigger already. I'm only shooting 25 yards ". I am very accurate with it, but it jumps to much. Thanks.
 
A proper muzzle brake for a 1911 involves getting a new barrel that is threaded to accept a barrel mounted compensator. You really want a barrel mounted version so that the bore of the compensator STAYS in line with the barrel's bore. Bushing compensators are out there but I frequently read that they can't ensure this important factor so they have a reputation for being less than useful.

So you're looking at significant cost to get a new barrel, the compensator and then to have a good 1911 smith fit the barrel to your slide. And likely as not you'll need a bull barrel since the compensator is in the way of where the slide bushing would be located. You'll also find that you have to play around with a new recoil spring since the brake stops a lot of the energy from going into the slide to kick it back.

On top of all this you'll find that to make the brake/compensator work properly that you want to use a powder that generates enough gas volume to really make the brake work. Rounds like hot .38Super and 9mmMajor can do this but you'll want to check into how well the good ol' .45 manages and what the more effective loading recipes are for compensated guns.

So all in all you're looking at a pretty high cost to do it right. And a fair amount of playing around to make it all work well. Might be worth double checking your grip, arms and posture first.

A LOT of recoil control comes from using a good supportive grip and by altering how you position your arms. You want a hold on the gun which sets the gun down deep in your grip. Then you want to hold with your elbows turned out a little so more of the recoil in your arms is to push your elbows out instead of your forearms up.

With this style of grip and arm positioning I've seen shooters that can empty all 8 rounds into a 6 inch target at 12 to 15 yards in under 5 seconds. These are the average guys I shoot with regularly. Hell, I'm pretty sure I can do it or come close to it. Some of the better shooters in IPSC Standard division could rattle off all 8 into an 8 inch target at 25 in the same time. Do you need more than that? If you do you're well on your way to a full on race gun setup. If you're shooting the slower paced classic bullseye style, as suggested by shooting at 25 yards, then why worry about recoil?
 
thanks BCrider..wow I just learned a lot. I'm doing everything wrong LOL. Time to change the plan. And practice a different shooting style. Thanks again. !!!
 
I installed a flat firing pin stop from EGW. Needs to be fit to frame, and the bottom edge very slightly bevelled. This made a noticeable difference with muzzle flip for me as it will take some of the speed from the slide on it's rearward travel. Just google it - tons of info at 1911 forum.com

I am still playing with different recoil spring/mainspring weights. Right now I have a variable 15lb recoil spring and a 19lb mainspring. I still don't quite understand the differnt spring weights with relation to felt recoil/muzzle flip though.
 
If you shoot a .44 magnum for a while, you won't notice the recoil from your .45 auto. Or you could adapt a better technique to control the bit of recoil that the .45 Auto does generate. To repeat the advice from BCRider, place your hand as high on the grip as possible. The closer your grip is to the center-line of the bore, the less muzzle flip the pistol have. Next time you're at the range, load the pistol with a single round and fire it with you hand as low on the grip as you can manage. The pistol will try to rotate out of your grip. Now reload, place the pistol in your hand so the web between your thumb and trigger finger is tight to the tang or the beaver-tail. When you shoot this time, you'll find its much more controllable; you might not even be aware of any muzzle flip.

With your shooting hand placed high on the grip, place the fleshy part of your support hand against the grip panel, in the space between the thumb and the fingertips of your shooting hand. Keep the thumb of your shooting hand on top of the safety, and run the thumb of your support hand along the side of the frame. I used to overlap my thumbs when shooting the 1911, but keeping the thumb of the support hand forward, significantly diminishes the amount of lateral movement.

Trigger press is the most critical part of making a shot with a handgun. You can have a great sight picture, intense focus on the front sight, your grip can be high and firm, your natural point of aim can be perfect, and your breathing can be well controlled, but if you lean on that trigger the shot will go wide. Between your focus on the front sight and your attention to the trigger break, you shouldn't even notice the gun recoil.

The first pad of your trigger finger engages the face of the trigger, there should be a bit of space between your finger and the side of the pistol, which insures you don't pull it off target as you press. And that's right, everyone, since triggers were put on firearms, has said squeeze the trigger. If you offer your finger to a baby, he will squeeze it, and squeeze it surprisingly hard, and he does it by squeezing with his entire hand. If you use your entire hand to squeeze the trigger, your pistol sights will swing off target before the shot breaks. You want to press the trigger, and train yourself so that the only part of your hand that moves is your trigger finger. The best way to train to do this by dry firing at home. Aim at a convenient spot on the wall, a light switch, a picture, whatever. Once the sights are aligned, shift your focus to the front sight and press the trigger. When the shot breaks, what does the front sight cover? What the front sight covers is what the bullet would have hit. Live fire doesn't demonstrate this nearly as well, or show you how to correct it.

The front sight is placed in the notch of the rear sight, so the top of both front and rear sight are even, and so there is equal space on either side of the blade. The front site is placed on the center of the target, then you shift your focus to the front sight allowing the rear sight and target to blur out of focus, leaving the front sight in clear and crisp in your vision. If your front sight is serrated, you should be able to clearly see those serrations, if it has a colored insert, you should be able to clearly see the seam between the insert and the sight blade.

Now add pressure to the trigger. If you see your front sight swing off target, maintain pressure on the trigger, and wait for the front sight to come back on target, then increase the pressure until the gun fires. When the gun fires, or when the hammer drops on an empty chamber if dry firing, it should surprise, but not startle you. You know the gun will fire, but you won't know precisely when it will fire. Over time and with practice, the time it takes to fire can be greatly reduced, but if you anticipate the shot you won't be able to make a good hit. Now this is important. Once the hammer falls and the gun fires, keep the trigger held back. Breath. Now, slowly release pressure on the trigger until you feel it reset. If dry firing, it won't of course, and you'll either have to rack the slide, or manually #### the hammer. The key though is not to break contact with the trigger between shots. This will prevent you from slapping the trigger in your rush to find it and make that fast follow up shot.

My grandson at 13 shooting my 1911 with factory 230 gr ball. Note the overlapped thumbs, which I have subsequently moved away from.


A couple of 10 yard groups, the kid's at the top, mine at the bottom.
 
1) use a proper grip
2) work on your support hand grip strength. Have it clamp down like a vise.
3) avoid a mechanical/firearm based solution - it may generate more problems than it fixes
 
Switch to 184gr bullets. Perceived recoil in the 45 auto is more from bullet weight than velocity because there isn't much velocity in the 1st place and the disparity in bullet weights in 45acp is pretty dramatic.

3 to 4 gr of bullseye or similar pushing a 184gr pill is as soft shooting as the 45 gets. There's a reason why it's the standard target load for ever and a day.

As for the gun...its all about what configuration you want to end up with.
EG..if you want the gun to remain stock length and look comps are out. They also don't work in holsters not designed for them.
They also make the gun muzzle heavy .

A big improvement that is a subtle/inexpensive change is to have the front grip area relieved as high as poss where it meets the trigger guard. A lot of newer production 1911's are made this way but most can be improved even more and older original pattern 1911's have a ton of material that can be relieved here. This allows you to get your hand up higher on the gun and makes a BIG difference in magaing recoil and muzzle flip.
This is a must IMO.

Another is to make sure the grips you are using allow you to keep a firm hold for how YOU shoot and YOUR hand size. if you are constantly regripping the gun every shot or two this leads to poor control.

A full length guide rod is also a inexpensive and unobstrusive mod that lends some forward weight/weight bias.

Are you using a straight or arched mainspring housing?? I have always found and preferred the arched mainspring housing for an ideal grip and shooting position vs the flat one. I have smaller hands. There was a reason it was one of the few improvements to the original 1911 in the 1st place.

What tang do you have? This is a very big area of both function, comfort and shootability of the 1911. Plenty of options...doesn't need to be a expensive custom job either as their are plenty of good drop ins avail. This a def an area to investigate as well on the 1911.

Hope this helps.....these are the biggest areas to focus on IMO getting the 1911 to fit and shoot well for you.
 
Gun and load tweaks will give some results, though small. Most of what you want will come from proper grip and stance. If you can, try and source someone in your area who shoots a lot of IPSC or some other speed shooting pistol sport and get some coaching.
 
I can clearly see that my idea isn't going to work. I will have a plié of money in a Sub-standard gun that may or may not work in the end. Thank you all for your wisdom and guidance in this matter. My shooting technique is wrong and so is my gun. For what I'm trying to achieve, ..I need a different gun. I started a new post , and I am now going to look for a Race-ready gun that's deigned and tweeked for this kind of event. I see I am way over my head trying to build one myself. You folks that posted saved me a lot of grief and steered me in a much better direction.!! Thanks to ALL.
 
I can clearly see that my idea isn't going to work. I will have a plié of money in a Sub-standard gun that may or may not work in the end. Thank you all for your wisdom and guidance in this matter. My shooting technique is wrong and so is my gun. For what I'm trying to achieve, ..I need a different gun. I started a new post , and I am now going to look for a Race-ready gun that's deigned and tweeked for this kind of event. I see I am way over my head trying to build one myself. You folks that posted saved me a lot of grief and steered me in a much better direction.!! Thanks to ALL.

Well....your gun may be fine as-is, though it's hard to give really good advice on equipment since I don't really know how your gun is configured or what its intended purpose is. But note that if you're just looking for faster shot recovery, correct technique will give you that. Good fundamental skills will transport across ALL pistol platforms, so I'd suggest trying to learn some of that before you dump a ton of money of something you may not need or may not suit your needs.

FWIW: A 230 grain bullet @ about 740 fps loaded over a fast burning powder (Bullseye is fine, Clays, N310 or 320, etc) would be your sweet spot. A 14 - 16 lb mainspring should be your range with a 17 lb mainspring and you can tweak the fp stop a little if you think it will help, though you might not notice much change. This load with this spring combo should do 6 rounds @ 7 meters to an A zone in under two seconds with a competent shooter. Under 1.7 with a really competent shooter. I've seen and owned guns set up this way that would shoot .11 second splits so a .45 can be fast, no question. That's without a compensator. Recovery time on a 25 meter target would go way down, assuming correct fundamentals.

Good luck on your quest.
 
Use heavy bullets with winchester 231 at a minimum charge. Use a 14lb recoil spring. Get a trigger job, make sure your sights work for you, personally I like a fiber optic front with black rear. Shoot lots. A 1911 45 can be a very soft and easy shooting gun with this combination. As mentioned before your grip and fundamentals are just as important as the tool ( or toy) that you're using. I would recommend taking a course from a well established instructor and then practice as much as you can.


I want to speed up my 1911 45 acp for target acquisition . What grain of bullet should I run, and at what speed, or powder charge should I have ?. I want lower recoil. Does a "muzzle break "compensator" help ?"
I am running stock18lb recoil, and shooting 230gr with 4.0gr of bullseye powder. I have a nice light crisp trigger already. I'm only shooting 25 yards ". I am very accurate with it, but it jumps to much. Thanks.
 
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