1911 or Glock 21

Wendell said:
:rolleyes: Really? Can you share any evidence to support your Wild-Ass Claim?
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Not everyone will know that... how many newbies come through here asking for advice or wondering why their 1911 is consistently a jam-omatic? they were a military pistol and made to function with round nose FMJ ball ammunition not FP, HP, TC. Feel free to read the Geneva convention... actually, the Hague convention refers specifically to weapons where the former the treatment of people.
 
If we can rely on Wikipedia:

It's the Hague (not Geneva which came later) Convention of 1899.

"Expanding bullets, also known colloquially as dumdum bullets, are projectiles designed to expand on impact. This causes the bullet to increase in diameter, to combat over-penetration and produce a larger wound. This leads to a living target being incapacitated faster. For this reason they are used for hunting and by some police departments, but are generally prohibited for use in war. Two typical designs are the hollow-point bullet and the soft-point bullet."

"International law
The Hague Convention of 1899, Declaration III prohibits the use of expanding bullets in international warfare.[21][22] This is often incorrectly believed to be prohibited by the Geneva Conventions, but it significantly predates those conventions, and is in fact a continuance of the Declaration of St Petersburg in 1868, which banned exploding projectiles of less than 400 grams.

The text of the declaration states, "The present Declaration is only binding for the Contracting Powers in the case of a war between two or more of them".[21] Until relatively recently, the prohibition on the use of expanding bullets was applicable only to international armed conflicts between the countries that have signed it. According to the International Committee of the Red Cross's customary international law study, customary international law now prohibits their use in any armed conflicts.[22][23] This has been disputed by the United States, which maintains that the use of expanding bullets can be legal when there is a clear military necessity.[23] The adoption of an amendment to Article 8 at the Review Conference of the Rome Statute in Kampala makes the use of expanding bullets in non-international armed conflict a war crime.[22][24] One example of a war crime involving expanding ammunition is the August 1941 German killing of Soviet prisoners at Zhitomir, as a human experiment with captured Red Army materiel.[25]

Because the Hague Convention applies only to the use of expanding bullets in war, the use of expanding rounds remains legal in other circumstances unless it is restricted or prohibited by local laws. Examples are use of appropriately expanding bullets in hunting in which it is desirable to stop the animal quickly, either to prevent loss of a game animal or to ensure a humane death of the animal, and in law enforcement or self-defence if quickly neutralising an aggressor may be needed to prevent further loss of life or the bullet must remain inside the target to prevent collateral damage."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expanding_bullet
 
so from all of this i am under the impression that the 1911 over takes the glock hands down.
thats good to know because i am new to the gun game and am having trouble picking my first pistol.
 
easyrider604 said:
If we can rely on Wikipedia:

It's the Hague (not Geneva which came later) Convention of 1899.

"Expanding bullets, also known colloquially as dumdum bullets, are projectiles designed to expand on impact. This causes the bullet to increase in diameter, to combat over-penetration and produce a larger wound. This leads to a living target being incapacitated faster. For this reason they are used for hunting and by some police departments, but are generally prohibited for use in war. Two typical designs are the hollow-point bullet and the soft-point bullet."

"International law
The Hague Convention of 1899, Declaration III prohibits the use of expanding bullets in international warfare.[21][22] This is often incorrectly believed to be prohibited by the Geneva Conventions, but it significantly predates those conventions, and is in fact a continuance of the Declaration of St Petersburg in 1868, which banned exploding projectiles of less than 400 grams.

The text of the declaration states, "The present Declaration is only binding for the Contracting Powers in the case of a war between two or more of them".[21] Until relatively recently, the prohibition on the use of expanding bullets was applicable only to international armed conflicts between the countries that have signed it. According to the International Committee of the Red Cross's customary international law study, customary international law now prohibits their use in any armed conflicts.[22][23] This has been disputed by the United States, which maintains that the use of expanding bullets can be legal when there is a clear military necessity.[23] The adoption of an amendment to Article 8 at the Review Conference of the Rome Statute in Kampala makes the use of expanding bullets in non-international armed conflict a war crime.[22][24] One example of a war crime involving expanding ammunition is the August 1941 German killing of Soviet prisoners at Zhitomir, as a human experiment with captured Red Army materiel.[25]

Because the Hague Convention applies only to the use of expanding bullets in war, the use of expanding rounds remains legal in other circumstances unless it is restricted or prohibited by local laws. Examples are use of appropriately expanding bullets in hunting in which it is desirable to stop the animal quickly, either to prevent loss of a game animal or to ensure a humane death of the animal, and in law enforcement or self-defence if quickly neutralising an aggressor may be needed to prevent further loss of life or the bullet must remain inside the target to prevent collateral damage."


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expanding_bullet
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Beat me to it...

As for the OP's original question, Glocks are soul-less polymer people poppers... if you treat your pistol like your lawn-mower get a Glock (to quote LAV), but if you get a 1911 prepare to be your own gunsmith. I've owned a bunch of each and keep going back to the 1911...
 
zenk said:
so from all of this i am under the impression that the 1911 over takes the glock hands down.
thats good to know because i am new to the gun game and am having trouble picking my first pistol.
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I haven’t tallied the answers in this thread, but if the majority recommend 1911, it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s the better pistol for you. Perhaps the 1911 afficionados are more passionate about their beloved 1911’s (I know I am) and they want to share their love for this great pistol. I’m also pretty sure there are more 1911 Owners in Canada than there are Glock 21 Owners.

Buy the 1911 for the reasons and arguments given in this thread, if you believe them. Buy a preowned 1911 and you’ll probably not lose money if you decide to sell it, assuming you’re a decent negotiator and you do your due diligence.
 
This was the exact same dilemma I was facing. I wanted a pistol in .45 and initially my 3 options were the 1911, Glock 21, or HK45. I then narrowed it down between the 1911 and Glock21 (Mind you there is also the Glock 41 that is often forgotten).

My decision was the 1911 for the following points and this is only my opinion:
- Single stack makes it more comfortable in the hand
- Capacity wise it's not very different because we as Canadians can't take full advantage of the glock's capacity with the 10 round limit. So I figured 8 round 1911 magazines is not so different then 10. Even then, they do sell 10 round extended mags, but they are not as popular from my understanding.
- 1911 looks classy
- You buying history with the 1911
- 1911 out of the box is a great shooter

In summary, for range use I feel that the 1911 fits my needs better. Just to add, if you are really set on the glock and it's for range use, you are better off with the Glock 41 because of the longer sight radius.
 
gus_274 said:
This was the exact same dilemma I was facing. I wanted a pistol in .45 and initially my 3 options were the 1911, Glock 21, or HK45. I then narrowed it down between the 1911 and Glock21 (Mind you there is also the Glock 41 that is often forgotten).

My decision was the 1911 for the following points and this is only my opinion:
- Single stack makes it more comfortable in the hand
- Capacity wise it's not very different because we as Canadians can't take full advantage of the glock's capacity with the 10 round limit. So I figured 8 round 1911 magazines is not so different then 10. Even then, they do sell 10 round extended mags, but they are not as popular from my understanding.
- 1911 looks classy
- You buying history with the 1911
- 1911 out of the box is a great shooter

In summary, for range use I feel that the 1911 fits my needs better. Just to add, if you are really set on the glock and it's for range use, you are better off with the Glock 41 because of the longer sight radius.
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...and Glocks are just fugly. Glock rhymes with Block.
 
I used to hate glocks. I only had 1911s. Then I bought a new RO 9mm 1911 and it had bad barrel. This really soured the 1911 for me. My Norinco 1911s were more accurate than my new Springfield.
I bought a G44 last year to teach my kids to shoot. It turns out i really like it. On Friday I bought a G19. I'm looking forward to it.
For me, the 1911 safety lever is in the wrong spot. I now prefer guns with out safety levers.
 
I bought a BNIB Gen3 G21 a few years ago. IIRC I paid ~$800 OTD with Night sights and 3 mags.
That G21 ran like a top! After a short learning curve (grip angle/trigger reset) it was very accurate and fast to acquire targets for Run & Gun drills.
Very easy to take-down for cleaning and it still looked mint when I sold it.

The 1911's I've owned and shot had great triggers and could hide a lot of shooter flaws while making them "look" better than they really are (ie. shooting static from a table top).

IMO it all depends on what you're going to do with either and have the same budget for both.
For one hole target practice the 1911 might be the better choice. For everything else....G21.
 
I was thinking about this too and decided to buy a consignment G21 from PR for reasonable money, now I can get a 1911 too which, let's be real here, that's the correct answer.
 
edgy said:
Lol, and 1911 rhymes with “ is this f###king thing jammed again ffs!” :)
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Nice try; mine does not jam unless I try and shoot XMetal polymer bullets (but they won't feed in anything); been feeding it a variety of home loads since I got it. Thousands of rounds. If that has been your experience, maybe it is the "operator" LOL.
 
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