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Why on earth do 1911 vs. Glock threads always degenerate into .45ACP vs. 9mm when both guns come in both calibers?
1911 or Glock ( what do you think?? )
- Thread starter Nick E
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Well, cause .40 in a glock is dumb, and .45 is not recommended by even the 1911 guys. Paul Howe is the only cat I know who likes a Glock in .45ACP.
That leaves the G17/19 in 9mm.
hehe.
The real question is why do people keep starting the threads....
And why do we keep coming back.
Highly illogical...
That leaves the G17/19 in 9mm.
hehe.
The real question is why do people keep starting the threads....
And why do we keep coming back.
Highly illogical...
In 9mm I'd say Glock and in .45 ACP a 1911.
A little off topic but further to what TDC posted, quite a few people I know make fun of the .22lr but none of them are willing to stand at 20 yards and let me shoot them to see if it would hurt....
I agree with TDC that shot placement is more important than calibre. A .45 slug to the leg/arm isn't as effective as a 9mm round to the chest. But what do I know I'm a paper puncher.....
And from a paper puncher's perspective, own both platforms.
A little off topic but further to what TDC posted, quite a few people I know make fun of the .22lr but none of them are willing to stand at 20 yards and let me shoot them to see if it would hurt....
I agree with TDC that shot placement is more important than calibre. A .45 slug to the leg/arm isn't as effective as a 9mm round to the chest. But what do I know I'm a paper puncher.....And from a paper puncher's perspective, own both platforms.
notsorichguy
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I own both..... I voted 1911. For no other reason than stated above....
Pride of ownership!
Cheers!
Pride of ownership!
Cheers!
Guns don't "Jam" they fail or incur a stoppage, jam is what you spread on toast. Even so, should you pistol fail I'm not about to close the distance on my threat and use it as a club. Other tools and other tactics should be used prior to going Braveheart on the guy. On a side note, 86% of the mass in a Glock is attributed to the steel/metal components so its got a lot more potential than you think.
I don't care if I drop or damage any of my firearms, they're TOOLS designed for a purpose. Are you concerned with damaging your new hammer?
Glocks come in all calibres as a marketing strategy nothing more.
Professional instructors do not use reloads. Their budget is a little greater than the average gun putters.
TDC
True Justins, but you said yourself "has no choice in what they carry". I myself think there is to much hype around glocks. I dont think that there is a goverment on this planet who is gonna fork out to arm the military as well as police with the best handgun on the market ( they want something cheap ).
The Colt 1911a1 was produced in 1909 ( proved in WW1,WW2,Korea,Cypress,Vietnam and the Gulf war )
The Glock was produced in 1982
Here we go. The typical response by the anti Glock crowd "because its cheap". Yes, they are. It is a marketing strategy and all manufacturers play the game. It also helps that your cheap price is attached to a quality product. If price was the only factor we'd see a lot more Raven arms or Hi Point pistols on officers belts.
The "hype" around Glocks is based on the benefits/advantages they offer for those who use them in their intended role, police/military applications. For the target shooter who does not compete or does not aggressively compete, many of the advantages are lost and are of little to no benefit.
The lineage of the 1911 has little to do with its ability to perform. There's no doubt the 1911 was the best option in a semi auto for many years but it is no longer the most suitable design for the task. Keep in mind that for many years the 1911 was carried as a sign of rank by officers. The use of pistols for combat and the focus on handgun tactics didn't really take off until approx. 1970's with Chuck Taylor.
Glock has been around since 1982 there's no denying that. What is interesting to note is than in less than 25 years it has dominated the handgun market for law enforcement, many military's and/or military units as well as the civilian side. Not bad for being the new kid on the block. Beretta has been around since 1526, the oldest maker in the business. Beretta is now considered a "non player" in the LE market. Its a far stretch to claim that Glocks success over companies such as Beretta and others is strictly due to "cheap" product.
TDC
Statistically the majority of gunfights take place inside 10 feet, not all gunfights. Planning around the majority while neglecting the minority is foolish. Answer me this.
What's more important, shooting the badguy or not getting shot?
TDC
What's more important, shooting the badguy or not getting shot?
TDC
TDC pretty much said with the braveheart comment what I was going to get back to, but if you are swinging your 45 or Glock like a club, you need to take a class in Close Quarters Combatives, and train what to do what tap rack doesn't work and your attacker is in contact distance.
I was more saying that as a what if?
- What if your you can't get your gun back into the fight?
- What if you run out of ammo? What if the bg gets on top of you?
These are serious things to be considered. Not everyone isn't hoped up on coke/heroin.
TDC - Both are very important in my opinion. No answer on the expert training? Dodge I see.
I'm always amused by the "Glock is more reliable" argument. The 1911 is arguably the most reliable, rugged and safe semi-auto handgun design ever made. Nearly 100 years of use and millions of units have proven it's reliability both in military combat and civilian use.
Besides - you don't run the risk of shooting yourself in the leg or foot taking it in and out of the holster
Besides - you don't run the risk of shooting yourself in the leg or foot taking it in and out of the holster
"The 1911 is arguably"
Arguably...
So, if we went and got a new glock and any 1911 out of a store, new, no smithing or work, you can guarantee me that the 1911 will function longer than the glock without a broken extractor, jam, etc. over say 1500 rounds over 2 days of hard training outside?
You a betting man? Least FTF or similar wins the other's steel?
"Besides - you don't run the risk of shooting yourself in the leg or foot taking it in and out of the holster "
No, just shooting fellow soldiers or officers while decocking it?
That is software, not hardware.
Arguably...
So, if we went and got a new glock and any 1911 out of a store, new, no smithing or work, you can guarantee me that the 1911 will function longer than the glock without a broken extractor, jam, etc. over say 1500 rounds over 2 days of hard training outside?
You a betting man? Least FTF or similar wins the other's steel?
"Besides - you don't run the risk of shooting yourself in the leg or foot taking it in and out of the holster "
No, just shooting fellow soldiers or officers while decocking it?
That is software, not hardware.
For me, it's like this....
1911 in .45ACP if I am punching paper at the range or plinking for fun.
If it was a SHTF scenario, and all I had to go with was one pistol, it would be a Glock 22 .40 cal with full cap mags.....
Too bad there's not a "both" option in the poll....
NAA.
1911 in .45ACP if I am punching paper at the range or plinking for fun.
If it was a SHTF scenario, and all I had to go with was one pistol, it would be a Glock 22 .40 cal with full cap mags.....
Too bad there's not a "both" option in the poll....
NAA.
YYYY, you need to stop assuming things. I'm a TR alumni.
As am I. I've posted my credentials before. Somehow you as well as many others assume I'm an "expert". I never indicated such nor do I pretend to be. I apply logic and sound tactics to an argument, not hollywood BS or illogical "what ifs".
The potential for a firearm failure is very real, as is the potential for the assailant to close distance and/or end up on top. As YYYYY pointed out, you need supplemental training for such situations because your choice in firearm doesn't make much difference. Especially in the later case. As for failures, I'll put a Glock against any other gun out there with full confidence that it will outlast it.
Do you have an answer to my question?
TDC
Slightly OT here:
Justin, it seems as though you have a passion for training. While I am not sure where it may be privately available you may be better served by taking some more varied training. Somewhere that teaches proper shielding, distance movement and appropriate use of countermeasures. Scenario based training that employs proper decision making, use of force and unarmed fighting and live fire using sims. Only then (outside of the real deal) does one realize how fast things change and not everything turns on your choice of firearm or whether or not you can pull that 300 dollar tactical folder quickly.
Justin, it seems as though you have a passion for training. While I am not sure where it may be privately available you may be better served by taking some more varied training. Somewhere that teaches proper shielding, distance movement and appropriate use of countermeasures. Scenario based training that employs proper decision making, use of force and unarmed fighting and live fire using sims. Only then (outside of the real deal) does one realize how fast things change and not everything turns on your choice of firearm or whether or not you can pull that 300 dollar tactical folder quickly.
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