1911 Reassembly

Dumby

Dumby

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I'm having trouble putting back the slide stop all the way through after reassembling a new SA 9mm Loaded model?
Is this common before it's broken in or I am lining up the notch wrong?
It goes all the way through when I point it down...
It has a full length guide rod, not like the USGI model which I can reassemble no problem.
 
There is a bit of a trick to getting the slide stop back in on 1911's. First off do NOT force it as it WILL slip and scratch the frame (infamously known as the newbie idiot scratch and yes I have one on my 1911). Until you are proficient slip a bit of paper between the frame and the stop as you gently push the stop (alligned parallel to the frame) in and rotate up slightly at the same time. It has to overcome the spring pressure of the little rod that is behind it. You will do it with ease after some practice.
Mike
 
Dumby, a full length guide rod (FLGR) serves no purpose; throw the FLGR in the trash and replace it with a standard set up (Recoil Spring, Recoil Spring Guide, and Recoil Spring Plug. This will make reassembly much easier. Regards, Richard:D
 
If you can get the slide stop in when the gun is pointed down, then sounds like the link may not be lined up with the slide stop. You can see it rotates, just make sure it is lined up.
 
it sounds like the stop is going in and getting caught on the plunger. Looking down on the slide stop, can you see the plunger, take a small screw driver and push the plunger in and the slide stop should pop in all the way.
 
As stated, don't force it. The result will be the "idiot scratch" on the frame.

The most likely problem is not having the hole in the swinging link on the bottom of the barrel lined up with the hole in the frame that the slide stop goes in to. When you point the gun down, the link swings completely forward so that it is out of the way, allowing the slide stop to go in, but of course this also means that the gun is not assembled correctly.

There is a tendency for the link to swivel out of alignment as it drags on the frame when you put the gun together. Be patient, make sure that the hole in the link is aligned with the hole in the frame for the slide stop, and that the notch in the slide is lined up correctly for the slide stop to fit into. You may have to try several times before it all lines up. Once those are right, the slide stop will fit in easily.
 
richardoldfield said:
Dumby, a full length guide rod (FLGR) serves no purpose; throw the FLGR in the trash and replace it with a standard set up (Recoil Spring, Recoil Spring Guide, and Recoil Spring Plug. This will make reassembly much easier. Regards, Richard:D
Click to expand...

Richard, Richard, Richard.... I have to politely disagree. :p In almost 30 years of shooting 1911's and having owned several dozen different ones I have found that a full length guide rod works for me in terms of assisting accuracy. Something to do with keeping everything aligned for consistent shot to shot placement. In my hands anyway.

But I do agree a 1911 is much easier to reassemble without a FLGR installed.... ;)
 
Gotta disagree on the guide rod thing. Full length guide rods are a good thing in a 1911. They won't generally assist in accuracy unless perhaps your lock up is really loose and if it is, I would get a smith to tighten it up rather than rely on a guide rod to pick up the slack. What they do is smooth out the action on the recoil spring so that the recoil pulse is consistently the same from shot to shot. Otherwise, the spring just bunches up in the dust cover channel and drags against the sides in there. Sure it'll work, but it ain't pretty. There is a reason most modern guns come with guide rods and remember; the 1911 design as originally conceived is getting close to a 100 years old. It was time for an update, and even JM Browning recognized the need for improvements to the design as did the rest of us. Current enhanced iterations of the 1911 are by and large fantastic now, and way better in execution than the original (beavertail anyone?).

The slide stop needs to be fed into the link, so make sure you align it using a pilot of some kind if you have to. Also, it may be that the slide stop is catching on the plunger and hanging up, as some of them aren't as slick as the should be from the factory. Take the slide off so you can see what's happening, and if it looks like the stop won't go past the plunger you can dress a little beveled lead-in on the plunger, or simply use a small Allen key or some such to depress it while feeding the slide stop into position.

Hope this helps.
 
NAA and relliott, I must be stupid as my 1911s work fine without a FLGR. This leads us to, do I own any 1911s? Yes, I own the group that is listed below. Regards, Richard:D

I own the following 1911s:

1. Norinco 1911A1
2. Norinco 1911A1
3. Sistema Colt 1927
4. Springfield Loaded
5. Springfield Mil Spec
6. Springfield Mil Spec
7. Colt Series 70 National Match
8. Colt Lightweight Commander
9. Colt Officer
10. Dan Wesson CBOB
11. Kimber Custom Compact
12. RIA Government
13. Para P12 LDA
14. Para P14
15. Dan Wesson Commander 10mm
16. Colt 9mm
17. Sistema Colt 1927
 
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Make sure you have no mag in the receiver as you won't get it in with a mag. Peep through the slide stop hole and line everything up (bbl link and slide). Make sure your bbl link is hanging down and not in the forward position. When inserting your slide stop, apply a slight but firm upward and inward pressure. I sometimes use a small tool to ease the plunger out of the way to avoid the idiot scratch and to help the installation of the slide stop. And most of all just go easy and be patient. Good luck!
 
I used to love FLGR's for their LCF (look cool factor) and their accuracy gain (real or perceived) until I had a stoppage. The round failed to chamber.
:eek:


It was all my fault.... I did not put a crimp on the 9mm rounds and that batch failed to chamber. So here I am trying to clear a stuck chambered (live) round. I abraded my hands/fingers on the rear adjustable sights (my fault again) while trying to rack the slide.

Out of habit, I approached the 2 x 4 target stand and proceeded to (keeping muzzle dowrange) push forward on the bottom of the slide (beneath the barrel). Browning HP owners know what I'm talking about, this also works for box stock Government 1911 owners.

Well, lo and behold, the FLGR got in the way, but I was able to 'jar' the slide to the rear by 1/8" and that's all it took to get the stuck chambered round unstuck. Slide racked well and then FLGR was removed and sold from all 4 of my 1911 family of pistols. Original set ups restored (government recoil plug and spring plunger or whatchamacallit). Faulty batch of 9mm handloads run back through the crimping die. All is well now. :D

Not a single jam anymore. Yes, I like FLGR's , they look cool, especially on my range queen 1911's. Now on the other hand, my competition 1911 pistols all wear normal 'as issued' recoil spring plugs and spring guides. Lesson learned. Look Cool Factor be damned..... :rolleyes:

Moral of the story: Buy whatever works for you, yer budget, yer game, yer ammunition, yer LCV (look cool value), and yer ###ual tendencies (whoops :eek:).
 
I will go ahead and try it out with a regular set up because right now I hate the gun and that's just not right. I got it put back together, I was just not lining it up right, but I might just change it anyways to see which way I like it better.

FYI, I have officially joined the club with the newbie slide scar from the slide stop.
 
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richardoldfield said:
NAA and relliott, I must be stupid as my 1911s work fine without a FLGR. This leads us to, do I own any 1911s? Yes, I own the group that is listed below. Regards, Richard:D

I own the following 1911s:

1. Norinco 1911A1
2. Norinco 1911A1
3. Sistema Colt 1927
4. Springfield Loaded
5. Springfield Mil Spec
6. Springfield Mil Spec
7. Colt Series 70 National Match
8. Colt Lightweight Commander
9. Colt Officer
10. Dan Wesson CBOB
11. Kimber Custom Compact
12. RIA Government
13. Para P12 LDA
14. Para P14
15. Dan Wesson Commander 10mm
16. Colt 9mm
Click to expand...

I never implied that you were stupid. I never said they don't work without a flgrd either. What I did say is that they are an improvement over original design, and I stand by that. I've owned plenty of 1911's over the years myself, and tuned them all for competition. But that's just my opinion.
 
Re: FLGR's

With all due credit to the writer here is an article that might be of interest regarding Full Length Guide Rods:

The MYTH Of The Full Length Guide Rod

American Handgunner, July, 2000 by Charles E. Petty

Do you really need this popular accessory for the 1911?
According to pistolsmith Wayne Novak, full-length recoil spring guides do three things: "Make the gun harder to take apart, change the point of impact and make money for the guy who sells them." None of those are particularly good for the guy who has one in his gun.
When long guide rods first came along they were heralded as magical things that did everything but whistle Dixie. Various gunsmiths touted them as making the gun more reliable, improving accuracy and preventing the recoil spring from binding. Those claims weren't immediately challenged and so, they became accepted as gospel.

If you look at the Government Model pistols sold by custom gunsmiths and some major manufacturers, you'll find that most of them come with a full length guide rod installed. Why? Because customers expect them.
A review of the catalogs of major parts sellers, such as Wilson and Baer, finds no such claims at all. They simply list the variations available.

Now there is one claim that I would not argue with at all-- a little more weight can help with recoil management and there are even tungsten rods that add quite a bit. But the other, alleged benefits are hard to prove.

An awful lot of the things we do to our guns are done to prevent something that might happen. We put the widget in and sure enough, nothing bad happens-- so everybody rushes out to buy widgets. Pretty soon everybody knows that widgets are required if you want your gun to work right.

Of course we must not forget the arbitrary. Full-length guide rods are an excellent example of a solution to a problem we haven't found yet. Here's another one. We are told that bottleneck cartridges are more reliable because they feed better. Oh yeah? I've got two SIG 229s, one in .40 S&W and the other in .357 SIG. Since neither one of them has ever malfunctioned, I'm sure that the .357 SIG is more reliable.

Here is a quote from one parts catalog: "Guide rods smooth out the cycling of the gun and add weight to the muzzle, reducing recoil. Also lengthen the life of your recoil spring."
But if we just stop and look at the Government Model, how the recoil spring works and where it lives, you can see that there really isn't a lot of room for something to go wrong. The barrel and the dust cover of the frame actually define where the spring can go. There's no room for it to kink or bind.

Another stated advantage is that a guide rod makes recoil springs last longer. That sounds logical, but how many of us replace recoil springs at all and, if so, how often? How much does a spring cost and how much longer will one last with a full-length rod compared to a standard rod? My guess is that even if a spring lasted twice as long, it would take awhile to pay for the rod.

Let's look at some numbers for a standard Government Model 45:
The standard recoil spring guide supports 1.5' of the spring.
The recoil spring plug supports another 1.4".
The spring is compressed 2.25" when the gun is assembled.
A relaxed GI spring is 6" long.
Therefore, 0.85" of the spring is not supported and the maximum it could flex is about 0.25" from either the dustcover or the barrel. I'm sorry. I must be missing something, but could that 0.25" of "free floating" spring possibly matter?
Let's look at another aspect. None of the present catalogs make any claims for accuracy improvement, although I recall that some of them once did. However, if you ask most shooters, they'll tell you that guide rods improve accuracy.

As part of another test I had a brand new Springfield Trophy Match. Now I'm a real fan of that gun and think it represents one of the best buys in gundom. They've always been good shooters: reliable and accurate. They also happen to come with a two piece full-length recoil spring guide. So the Trophy Match was mounted in the Ransom Rest and we shot five 10 shot groups at 25 yds. with Black Hills 230 gr. JHP ammo. Here are the results. The average was 1.886".

Then, without removing the frame from the Ransom Rest, the guide rod was replaced with a GI part. The same recoil spring was used. Same song, second verse. The average was 1.718".

You are free to reach your own conclusions about the effect on accuracy, but from a statistical viewpoint, there probably isn't any difference one way or the other.
So here's how I feel about full-length guide rods. If the gun comes with one-- and it doesn't cost extra-- I won't take it out. But if I've got a choice, Mr. Browning's original will do just fine for me.

COPYRIGHT 2000 Publishers' Development Corporation
COPYRIGHT 2001 Gale Group
 
Don't hate the gun.

Put the original spring set up in it and get used to it and then go back and try the FLGR if you want afterwards.
 
richardoldfield said:
NAA and relliott, I must be stupid as my 1911s work fine without a FLGR. This leads us to, do I own any 1911s? Yes, I own the group that is listed below. Regards, Richard:D

I own the following 1911s:

1. Norinco 1911A1
2. Norinco 1911A1
3. Sistema Colt 1927
4. Springfield Loaded
5. Springfield Mil Spec
6. Springfield Mil Spec
7. Colt Series 70 National Match
8. Colt Lightweight Commander
9. Colt Officer
10. Dan Wesson CBOB
11. Kimber Custom Compact
12. RIA Government
13. Para P12 LDA
14. Para P14
15. Dan Wesson Commander 10mm
16. Colt 9mm
Click to expand...

Not all my 1911's have FLGR's... ;)
 
ian_in_vic said:
Based on reliable sources, the one place you won't find an FLGR is in a combat zone, interesting, huh?
Click to expand...

You won't find a lot of things people do to their 1911's in a combat zone....most Canadians that own a 1911 are not in a combat zone, but are in the controlled environment of a shooting range.
 
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