1912 Winchester 1894 Restoration?

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Jakebouts

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So, I recently purchased a Winchester 1894 off #######. After taking down the rifle, and having the barell pretty much fall out of the action for no other reason that it was very, very loose, I think I might have myself a candidate for restoration.

Anyone know of a good gunsmith that can make my 110 year old gun look and run like new? I'm expecting the barrel needing to be re-timed / headspace to be re-done on top of all the cosmetics...

Thanks!
 
Can't think of any reason why an 1894 would have a loose barrel. That is indicative of a major problem. Wouldn't spend a cent on it until the cause for this problem is determined.
How is the bore? Excellent?
If a complete restoration/rebuild is to be done by a competent gunsmith, the cost is going to exceed the value of the rifle. Lots of billable hours.
 
Sounds like the OP bought a put together??

tiriaq is right. It may need more than just setting back the shoulder and likely reaming the chamber. If it's a mixmaster made up out of a parts bin???? It may only be worth the sum of its parts.

Does the barrel tighten up to the shoulder and stabilise or is it still sloppy.

Hard to tell from your description.

I've personally given up on purchasing firearms from Gun Post.

Always something not fully disclosed, that should have been. Very seldom a worthwhile endeavor.

That doesn't mean others aren't pleased, because there are many honest sellers there. Not nearly as many as on this site though
 
From taking a very close look at it while dissasembling it / cleaning it, the wear marks of the octogon barrel stamped on the receiver suggest that this is the original barrel for this rifle. That and all the the caked up dirt and nastyness seem to have been there for many years.

However, I'm able to hand tighten past those wear marks to a point where the sights are canted too far to one side, compared to the receiver. If I make the barrel level, and reassemble everything, my headspace checks out, but I know that my barrel isnt torqued.

Is there a way I can tell if this is a parted out rifle?
 
Now that I think of it, there was so much dirt in the screws that if someone had reassembled this rifle without cleaning the screws (like I did) and managed not to bugger them up at all, that is straight impressive. So I dont think it's parted out for that reason, unless its been done a long time ago...
 
Jakebouts said:
From taking a very close look at it while dissasembling it / cleaning it, the wear marks of the octogon barrel stamped on the receiver suggest that this is the original barrel for this rifle. That and all the the caked up dirt and nastyness seem to have been there for many years.

However, I'm able to hand tighten past those wear marks to a point where the sights are canted too far to one side, compared to the receiver. If I make the barrel level, and reassemble everything, my headspace checks out, but I know that my barrel isnt torqued.

Is there a way I can tell if this is a parted out rifle?
Click to expand...

The substance you call dirt may be the left over of whatever compound was used to lock the threads in place at the proper point.

Are the tenon and receiver threads deformed in any way?

It sounds like you're pressed for cash. If not, I suggest taking it to your local gunshop, if it has a gunsmith to have the rifle checked out.

Most local Big Box stores that sell firearms don't have knowledgeable people behind their counters. SOME do.

inspector stamps may tell the story or they may not.

The way you describe the over turn of your barrel, would suggest it's not original or that one of the owners severely over torqued it at one time. Usuall this condition is quite obvious by deformation on the receiver shoulders or on the tenon shoulder.

You might be able to get away with a custom fitted shim, that will allow the barrel to torque up properly.

guntech tells it like it is. Restorations, depending on how far you want to go, can be very expensive.

Unless you have a hidden gem there, You're likely just as far ahead to sell off the parts and pick up the grade of rifle you're looking for, in the chambering you're looking for.
 
As far as resetting the barrel goes...
Assuming that there is no damage, the barrel shoulder could be machined back one thread, the shank faced off the same amount, the extractor cut deepened, and the chamber reamed.
Everything forward of the receiver will have to be adjusted - the forend, the magazine tube, etc.
It would be easier to install a breeching washer as bearhunter suggested. Rather than a thin shim, I would face off the shoulder and fit a thicker washer, so that the barrel would pull up to index with acceptable torque.
This rifle sounds like a challenging project for a diy, and a money pit if someone has to be paid to do the work.
A quality reblue with all edges sharp, no dished flat surfaces and intact lettering would be hundreds of dollars.
 
Thanks for all the advise, I'll contact the seller and see if he'll consider making things right... sometimes you lose some.
 
tiriaq said:
Can't think of any reason why an 1894 would have a loose barrel. That is indicative of a major problem. Wouldn't spend a cent on it until the cause for this problem is determined.
Click to expand...
Ditto ....

Jakebouts said:
However, I'm able to hand tighten past those wear marks to a point where the sights are canted too far to one side, compared to the receiver. If I make the barrel level, and reassemble everything, my headspace checks out, but I know that my barrel isnt torqued. Is there a way I can tell if this is a parted out rifle?
Click to expand...

How far past? a few degrees - 5, 10? or are we talking like 45? (each flat past would be 45^ ;) ) and too far to one side would be to the left ~ clockwise ... right?
If it's only a few degrees clockwise, I would guess bolt stretch (the barrel has been torqued past the ability for the threads to return to their original shape) ~ measure the threads (both receiver & barrel)

As far as I know (and I only know enough to be dangerous) there is no way to (definitively) tell if a barrel on a Winchester is original to the gun - some research on calibre, length, profile etc to determine if that model was ever sold with that barrel configuration might help. Or not - could be a custom config from the factory ... if you are VERY lucky you can look up the serial number to see if records about it's manufacture & delivery details exist . Though probably not worth the cash if you got it off an auction.

To determine if it is a mix master .... does the condition of the action match the bore condition, a "good with strong rifling" 110 year old bore has not see a whole lot of action - I would expect the action to be pretty tight without much wear on the internals or slop.
Your big indicator will be the screw condition .... were the slots sharp and clean? were they too sharp and too clean are they replacements or are they mangled beyond recognition. mangled screws = amateur/hobbyist
If they are damaged in any way .. why? replacing a part? someone was curious? (did you do it ;) ?)
The most common replacement here would be the link - they wear regularly. The only way again to tell would be to compare the internals to see if they are 'period correct' - a replaced lifter might indicate a calibre change ....

Basically - take it to a proper smith & have the barrel installed properly (or be told it can't be) & you might be ok. A complete restoration ... I am with everyone else. WAY more than it is worth. (the barrel installation might actually put it over)
 
Thanks for the advise! Everything looks periode correct, and only a few screws appear to have been messed with, but nothing too ugly.

As for the barrel over-tightening, I think like 1/8th of an inch turn too far to the right. (By hand, with no real major force applied)
 
Jakebouts said:
Thanks for the advise! Everything looks periode correct, and only a few screws appear to have been messed with, but nothing too ugly.

As for the barrel over-tightening, I think like 1/8th of an inch turn too far to the right. (By hand, with no real major force applied)
Click to expand...

ok - if that is the case, I would probably go with bearhunter and tiriaq on the washer ... readjusting everything to fit a setback barrel is a HUGE pain in the ass and expensive if you can't/won't do it yourself.

+++++++100!! on turning the shoulder back and using a thicker washer - too thin and it will crack/deform when installing the barrel. (don't ask me how I know - am sure you can guess)

If you don't mind, what did you pay for it?

-sean
 
Jakebouts said:
800$, so it stings a little.
Click to expand...

yeaa..... that's pretty much market for a properly functioning gun ... sorry.

IMO there are 3 ways to look at a Winchester

#1. 100% original, papered and pre 1900.... "a collector"

#2. any of the above MIA ... "a shooter"

#3. needs more than $200 in parts .... "organ donor"

Oh, wait, there are 4...

#4. anything made after 1950 or so .... "none of the above"
 
Yeah, there is a chance that this is an all original gun, it certainly looks the part, but the barrel being loose kinda ruins it. I'm currently in talks with the seller, who is being very kind about the issue.
 
If it were mine, with a decent bore, and OK headspace, I would be inclined to clean it up and assemble it with epoxy on the barrel threads. Leave it as is.
 
I bought an 1894 from a local gunshop years back. It was a somewhat rare configuration but hard done by. A 32/40 rifle with 2/3 magazine and shotgun butt. I took it apart and the barrel threads were rattling loose in the action. On very close examination you could see where someone had run a bead of weld on top of the receiver where the barrel threads engage with it. No doubt the heat made it go out of round and oval shaped. Ended up parting it out minus the receiver so got most of my money back. Who knows why they welded it unless the barrel came loose through abuse of some kind.
 
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