1914 bsa 303 value

bigben

bigben

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My buddy comes over the other day and shows me this old 303 that was made in 1914 He ask me what it is worth I told him I don t know so without further due I am asking anyone that is familiar with this old gun and what s is value As far as I can see it is in great shape for a gun that was produced in 1914 the wood is beautiful and the blueing on the barrel is untouched it has the number 88852 stamped all on it and where ever I find it the number it seems to be on different parts of the rifle . It has the long range sights on it and a nose cap on er but does not seem to have the bayonet assembly that most 303 have it seems to be a 10 shot clip on it and its a very nice piece any light on the value would be much appreciated thanxs Here are some pics thanks











 
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I've seen worse, but those "sporterized" LEs are far less valuable than their full wood counterparts, or for that matter a true LE sporter as marketed by Churchill Arms, Parker Hale, and a few custom makers. The problem with those WW-1 era rifles, compared to post WW-2 rifles, is that they were subjected to corrosive priming, and were not always provided with the kindness necessary to keep them in top condition, so badly corroded and pitted bores were not uncommon. Probably the value of your BSA is in the $150-$200 range, if the bore is shootable.
 
Don't know about the barrel condition but the rest of the rifle looks decent. Peaked my interest until I saw the last picture showing it is sporterized. I would agree with the $150-$200 range as is. It would make a nice restoration project but it would be tough to find a matching nose cap. Maybe someone who really wants a 1914 dated smle would pay more?
 
It has the late-type COCKING PIECE which appeared 2 or 3 yrs after this rifle was made.

Nothing serious: if it wasn't done at Birminghm Repair, then it would have been done by an Armourer somewhere.

This is 1914 rifle, but they served until bout 1952 in the British Army, still serve in India. The military had 40 years in which to change-out a cocking-piece.

You can tell more bout it from the BARREL DATE on th left side of the Chamber at 10 o'clock, under the Rear Handguard. 2 figures only.
 
A point to remember: NOBODY saw World War One coming until it was too late.

The Archduke was murdered on June 28: the year was almost half-over. Britain declared war in AUGUST. It takes TIME to ramp-up production.

The rate of attrition on rifles was terrible: almost as bad as the attrition rate on MEN.

By the time the War ended, the vast majority of SMLE rifles in existence were 1917 and 1918 make.

Since then, the few surviving 1914 rifles have had to go through 95 years of smaller wars, World War Two, Bubba and the ever-present gun-grabbers, both official and private.

It is a small miracle that any survive.
 
"...NOBODY saw World War One coming until..." You must have read different books than I did. What wasn't seen was it starting how it did.
"...those "sporterized" LEs are..." Everywhere and most have bad headspace. Any change of the bolt head without using proper guages gives bad headspace. Places like Century Arms Int'l assembled thousands of 'em, out of parts bins, with zero QC. Then sold 'em cheap, but didn't bother to check the headspace to ensure they were safe to shoot. Mind you, it wasn't only the professional bubba's that sporterised 'em. Your grandpa, ok more likely mine, also cut 'em down.
If the serial numbers match, the one on the back of the bolt handle matching that on the receiver does not guarantee anything either. Have it checked before you shoot it.
 
sunray said:
"...NOBODY saw World War One coming until..." You must have read different books than I did. What wasn't seen was it starting how it did.
"...those "sporterized" LEs are..." Everywhere and most have bad headspace. Any change of the bolt head without using proper guages gives bad headspace. Places like Century Arms Int'l assembled thousands of 'em, out of parts bins, with zero QC. Then sold 'em cheap, but didn't bother to check the headspace to ensure they were safe to shoot. Mind you, it wasn't only the professional bubba's that sporterised 'em. Your grandpa, ok more likely mine, also cut 'em down.
If the serial numbers match, the one on the back of the bolt handle matching that on the receiver does not guarantee anything either. Have it checked before you shoot it.
Click to expand...

Or, put a $.01 rubber band around the case, slide it back the the rim, fire the gun and then neck size your brass like most of us do!!

PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!

I think I'm going to do a picture thread of me firing my super out of spec headspaced 1916 lithgow sporter with the above method!!

Just my oppinion though!
 
Sunray, perhaps from your Ivory Tower you can tell me exactly HOW MANY people foresaw the biggest war in all human history, beginning in the Summer of 1914?

They had just had the First Balkan War and the Second Balkan War. Things were supposed to be settling down, not exploding. Archduke Franz Ferdinand was the biggest supporter of PEACE and also the single most important person working toward reform of the Habsburg Empire which would make another war in the Balkans extremely unlikely.

If people had actually seen the war coming, don't you think they might have prepared for it, just a little bit? When Britain sent its "contemptible little Army" to France, it was EVERYTHING THEY HAD. The SHELL SCANDAL was caused by the fact that they had shot off much of their War Reserve of ammunition in training..... and now they had to train TEN TIMES as many Gunners. Half a million men died for that little mistake because it took TWO YEARS to make a shell. Don't you think they might have started just a FEW, if they knew that a war was just around the corner?

Century might have built up a few out-of-spec rifles, but I rather doubt that they had the actual PROOF and INSPECTORS' punches available. Let's get REAL.

Tinman has already dealt with out-of-spec rifles. The biggest problem today is out-of-spec AMMO.

Perhaps you have a solution to THAT problem..... and it has damned little to do with checking the freakin' headspace!
 
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SUNRAY

If you are trying to stir up a bit of contraversy by stating your own opinions on History, I do believe you have picked the wrong person to try to revamp the facts of History to. Perhaps you are not aware that SMELLIE graduated from University with a Degree in History, and actually taught History at a University and was a Student and later a Colleague of one of the most famous and respected History Professors in Canada. I would venture to suggest that your knowledge of History compared to SMELLIE's has about the same comparison as one grain of sand versus an acre of the Sahara Desert.

But then again, some people like to think that having a high number of Posts indicate a vast amount of knowledge. Unfortunately, many people are here for the "Score" and post anything as long as it adds to their "Score." Quantity does not mean that the Posts have Quality, all it indicates is that some people have too much time on their hands and a Computer.
 
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Anything sunray says is to be taken with a grain of salt.
He has proven over and over and over again that he is
big on words, but short on knowledge.
Eagleye.
 
Eagleye said:
Anything sunray says is to be taken with a grain of salt.
He has proven over and over and over again that he is
big on words, but short on knowledge.
Eagleye.
Click to expand...

Not to mention that it's rather remarkable that somebody can have 17,500+ posts but still hasn't figured out how to use the quote button!!

Blows my mind!!!
 
Eagleye said:
Anything sunray says is to be taken with a grain of salt.
He has proven over and over and over again that he is
big on words, but short on knowledge.
Eagleye.
Click to expand...

Not to mention he's a one-man campaigner against a company (Century Arms) which to my knowledge hasn't sold firearms to the public in Canada for the better part of two decades. I think this is tirade #6 I've counted.
 
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I love this one. Quote from SUNRAY: " You must have read different books than I did."

Perhaps SMELLIE was a bit busy WRITING History and History related books to read the ones that SUNRAY has read. Or maybe SUNRAY should read some of SMELLIE's books.

Or then again, SUNRAY could visit the SMITHSONIAN MUSEUM, and examine some of SMELLIE's personal papers that they are using there as a reference to some WWI information.

But many of us know just who SMELLIE is, what a vast store of knowledge he has, and his generous sharing of the knowledge with the rest of us. Those people know that SMELLIE is rather modest in trumpeting his accomplishments and blowing his own horn, unlike some of the more vociferous Members here, but he believes in sharing the CORRECT information, and not guesses or suppositions.

No need for him to really say anything else to this thread.
 
bigben said:
My buddy comes over the other day and shows me this old 303 that was made in 1914 He ask me what it is worth I told him I don t know so without further due I am asking anyone that is familiar with this old gun and what s is value As far as I can see it is in great shape for a gun that was produced in 1914 the wood is beautiful and the blueing on the barrel is untouched it has the number 88852 stamped all on it and where ever I find it the number it seems to be on different parts of the rifle . It has the long range sights on it and a nose cap on er but does not seem to have the bayonet assembly that most 303 have it seems to be a 10 shot clip on it and its a very nice piece any light on the value would be much appreciated thanxs Here are some pics thanks
Click to expand...

The other thing to consider regarding restoring this one is that to do it properly you'd need volley sights and a magazine cutoff. This means an added expense (and hard to find parts) plus a forearm that is inlet for the correct bits. I'm not sure if that helps or hurts its value.

It seems that Australian SMLE's suffer from the same problem. There's great sporterized examples out there to start with but no original wood (coachwood or Queesnland maple) to do it right.
 
bogusiii said:
The other thing to consider regarding restoring this one is that to do it properly you'd need volley sights and a magazine cutoff. This means an added expense (and hard to find parts) plus a forearm that is inlet for the correct bits. I'm not sure if that helps or hurts its value.

It seems that Australian SMLE's suffer from the same problem. There's great sporterized examples out there to start with but no original wood (coachwood or Queesnland maple) to do it right.
Click to expand...

Good point about the australian smle's. I have one here that is a numbers matching mkIII* but I'm finding it next to impossible to find a suitable forestock and had gaurds.

One day I hope they will turn up at a time that I have the cash in hand!!
A boy can dream!!
 
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