1917 Enfield

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OwensOT66

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Hi guys I was wondering if you guys could shed some light on my 1917 enfield or p17 as some call it. The stock is walnut with everything being a greyish green parkerized finish. The receiver, trigger, bolt, sight and stock are Eddystone. The 2 barrel bands are Winchester along with the barrel being R for Remington with the flaming bomb and 6-18. I know it can’t be all original due to the variety of some of the parts but I was wondering if this was one of the ww2 referbs or did someone put this all together. Lots of stamped eagles with a couple bombs and the US sighn on a shield, it also has a P on the barrel? and odd numbers here and there. It stocks up very well and has a 5 groove left twist barrel
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WWII refurb - look on left side of stock - I have one here stamped "AAQ" - is apparently the stamp for Augusta (Georgia) Arsenal rebuild - there were numerous US arsenals doing refurbs in WWII. Can't provide a reference, but I was under impression that a WWII re-furb would have the stock stamped to ID the arsenal that did the refurb. Your finish looks very "fresh" - WWII parkerizing was dark or grey, I believe - became greenish coloured with years of dirt, gun oils, handling, etc. Have read several discussions of "authenticating" these "re-builds" - gets into finding matching dings / scratch marks crossing from wood to metal bits, from wood pieces to partner wood pieces, etc. FYI - just was reading a 1963 Guns magazine on Internet - ad from a Chicago store selling M1917 - Eddystones were $29.99; Remington or Winchester were $34.99. Very good reference books for you are "Pattern 1914 and U.S. Model of 1917" by Charles Stratton; "United States Rifle Model of 1917" by C.S. Ferris. I got both from Amazon within past year or so.

As far as mixed parts - probably some of that going on in WWI? Did not find a lot of references where these rifles used much by USA after that - even WWII re-furbs - not certain many or most were even issued for overseas combat duty?? If you go to m1903.com website, down left side to "M1917 Parts" - end up with chart / list of parts - click on part name - line drawing pops up showing where each maker made their mark on each piece. Not the same. Good evidence of "games" played over the years - I have an M1917 front band with "W", "E" and something unreadable where the "R" is supposed to be, all in correct (different) locations; all on the same part. Also have "re-finished" parts that a "DP" visible when held in correct light.

As per those reference books, most M1917 parts were stamped with a US acceptance mark - an eagle head,with a tiny number behind it - Ferris book lists which numbers went with which manufacturer facilities. Have received many P14's with eagle head marked parts - the parts are physically identical and work perfectly - just the eagle head says that part is for the M1917, not a P14. Many parts in M1917's without marks that should have had the eagle head - so, missed in production or could as easy be P14 parts, in some cases. Certain parts absolutely not interchangeable - bolt stop boxes for example. But sears, safeties, triggers, bands, etc. much harder to tell one from the other... Trigger guards and floor plates can be "made to work" but were not the same to each other; same with the stocks and hand guards - can be "made to work" but were not originally the same.
 
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By the color I would say it was re finished my eddy is blue, others have a dark park
Mixed manufacturer parts are mostly difference park colors in military guns, they don't match
 
Yea can’t find those numbers on the side of the stock it’s dark grey and parkerized so it must b a ww2 referb I think that could explain some of the parts it’s mostly Eddystone so I feel if someone did put it together themselves it would not stock up as well nor have all matching colour on all the metal. I took it apart as well not a spec of rust on the thing!
 
"stock up as well"? - hard to see from your pictures, but properly "stocked up" should have a bit of "up pressure" from stock at very front of fore arm - looks to be an air gap in your picture?? The remainder of the barrel from chamber to about an inch or so from very end of fore arm should be "free" - no contact with wood in forearm or hand guard. Need to evaluate the rifle for expected wear markings as well - evidence of cartridges being fed from magazine usually marks the floor plate. Carrying, cycling action with dirty hands often results in "carry wear" along bottom face of floor plate; bolt knob often has finish more worn than the bolt handle, etc. Your third picture - ahead of the front band on barrel - some dark specs - don't really know what that is? Same with upper edge of right side of upper band - is that dark showing through the "finish"?
 
OwensOT66 said:
Yea can’t find those numbers on the side of the stock it’s dark grey and parkerized so it must b a ww2 referb I think that could explain some of the parts it’s mostly Eddystone so I feel if someone did put it together themselves it would not stock up as well nor have all matching colour on all the metal. I took it apart as well not a spec of rust on the thing!
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Well, you kind of lost me there. It's your rifle - hold it out to be whatever you want. I do not know how you made the jump that "it must b a ww2 referb" without the arsenal rebuild marks on the stock?? Did you find a reference that such a thing occurred? - I cannot, so maybe I can learn something here. The arsenal rebuild marked stock I have has an "R" at the front end. The receiver is an Eddystone. The barrel is a HS - High Standard - which was one of the contractors making new replacement barrels for the WWII rebuild program - I did not know that they re-used WWI made barrels, which your barrel is? Maybe they did - I do not know.

It is as easy to explain mismatched parts, etc. by someone putting bits together in a basement workshop. Many of us have the barrel vises, vice inserts, action wrenches to dismantle and reassemble as we see fit. An acquaintance does "spray-on then bake" GunKote, or maybe it's CeraCote, that looks very much like blue or park, especially to those not really familiar with either. The finish to the metal below the bluing/parking was changed at different times also, which reflects on what it looks like, hence, as mentioned above, correct parts that were substituted for original parts, but made at different times, or by different makers, have different "colour". As far as "no rust", I have a Second Boer War mauser and two pre-WWI sporter mausers that have no rust anywhere, either - a function of knowledgeable people looking after them for 110 years or more. I hope to do my part, while they are mine to look after.
 
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Ok thank you for the information always great to learn about these pieces of history still have a lot to learn I appreciate the information looks like it was put together by someone so just not a collectable hit a 4 inch group at 100 yards with it today so happy with the buy!
 
OwensOT66 said:
Ok thank you for the information always great to learn about these pieces of history still have a lot to learn I appreciate the information looks like it was put together by someone so just not a collectable hit a 4 inch group at 100 yards with it today so happy with the buy!
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And I believe that is the most important thing - "happy with the buy". It is amazing experience to punch holes in targets (or whatever) with stuff made more than 100 years ago!! I am glad you are enjoying it!! Should you need "bits" reach out to me by PM, I may be able to help. For example, in one of your later pictures - hard to tell, but you might have been missing the cross screw for that front band - it is odd shaped - fat shank, much narrower threaded section. Most all threads on M1917 were carried over from P14 - so British - usually BA series threads, but not always - the odd Enfield series thread thrown in here and there. Definitely not finding those at local hardware store...
 
Century Arms had 1917 Enfields there were from vg/mint condition for $69.00
So there should be lots around
 
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