Thanks to a marvelous gentleman from CGN, I've just acquired the above rifle. It's walnut stocked and the wood is in very good shape for it's age with some minor gouges and the usual compression dents. All the bits and pieces are properly Long Branch or CCM marked but for a few things and this is where I have to pick the brains of my fellow CGN members. On the left side of the butt stock is an "R" over a line and underneath the line is REME. Now, I'm an old ex soldier and I know that REME stands for "Royal Electrical & Mechanical Engineers", but the "R" above it has me stumped. Perhaps R Company? If there's some old ex-pat or ex-engineer who knows if my speculation is correct, I'd appreciate it if you'd let me know. The only thing that keeps this from being an outstanding example of a Long Branch is the fact that (probably the brits) replaced the rear sight with a "B" marked micrometer sight instead of the proper stamped Canadian sight, they put on a new brass butt plate (which I've swapped out for the black alloy Canadian one), and the mag is also English not Long Branch. The mag is in very good condition and the bore is almost pristine which leads me to think that it's had very few rounds down the pipe. The right side of the receiver has the "ENGLAND" stamp which was common to non-English made military arms taken into british service I believe. I'm assuming the butt plate and sight were changed to keep it looking like the English ones issued to the rest of the lads. Again, perhaps some old sweat can tell me if my assumptions are correct. I could go to the trouble of posting pics, but it looks just like any other '43 Long Branch except for the above mentioned differences. Thank the gun gods that "Bubba" never got his hands on this one!
1943 Long Branch No.4 REME marked
- Thread starter LawrenceN
- Start date
Lucky you, post war the Brit's went back to the brass butt plates as standard, same as the milled sights so you appear to be right about the rifle being re-fitted by them. I think the R over REME stands for repair or refit. My 1944 Longbranch has the birch stock wood, as that is what they were using during that war period time frame, maybe they swapped that out too! either way that was common practice as well.
Any pictures?
Any pictures?
The ENGLAND thing is a US import mark; it was required at one time when it was imported into the U.S.
The milled sight was probably put on by a civilian owner who wanted something more useful than the awful stamped sight, or broke it and wanted one that was going to stay put.
The milled sight was probably put on by a civilian owner who wanted something more useful than the awful stamped sight, or broke it and wanted one that was going to stay put.
stencollector
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
And after unification: They got the name/acronym back last year.
But as pointed out, the REME on the rifle represents the British corp of maintainers.
I'm kind of torn on that one. On one hand, you're correct about the brass butt plate, and on the other it should properly wear the Canadian one. What to do, what to do? I'll give it some thought. As to the reply from Skaal-tel, I wasn't going to post pics (after all, a '43 Long Branch is a '43 Long Branch), but tomorrow I'll break out the camera and post a few pics.
It should be taken into account that Canadian issued #4s also had brass butt plates. Many of these were installed post war. I was an armourer in the late 60s and there were a few brass plates in stores as the #4Ts were still in service.
stencollector
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- shilo MB, the armpit of Canada
While the REME marking on the butt would lead credence to this rifle being in UK service, it is not absolute proof. If the marking was on the receiver, it would be more definitive. Butt stocks move around.
There were plenty of British parts mixed into our system. A few years back I bought about 10 sealed boxes of front sight guards that were packed into Canadian stores back in the early 60s. While they guards were primarily Canadian, there were also Savage and UK made ones in the boxes. As well, the majority of the mk1 rear sights in the Canadian system that I saw come in were Brit made, including a lot of jungle carbine (800 yard) rear milled sights. As the Canadian stocks of parts ran out, parts (and rifles) were sourced on the world market.
There were plenty of British parts mixed into our system. A few years back I bought about 10 sealed boxes of front sight guards that were packed into Canadian stores back in the early 60s. While they guards were primarily Canadian, there were also Savage and UK made ones in the boxes. As well, the majority of the mk1 rear sights in the Canadian system that I saw come in were Brit made, including a lot of jungle carbine (800 yard) rear milled sights. As the Canadian stocks of parts ran out, parts (and rifles) were sourced on the world market.
Your point is worth consideration, but I tend to lean toward the brass butt being English as there are no Canadian possession stamps. Given what the other gentleman mentioned about parts moving around, too true in many cases. But from the wood patina and the appearance of the rifle, the matching parts, and the numbers on the wood pieces (although not serial numbered to the rifle per se) , it would seem that the butt is correct to the rifle. It is C-Broad arrow marked so it is definitely Canadian. Though I thank all you guys for your input, I feel my original hypothesis is correct (I've had a LOT of experience with Lee Enfields over the years) in that it was a Long Branch issued at some point to the brits. The primary purpose of the post was to see if anyone out there knew FOR SURE about REME unit numbering. I don't think that there's any doubt that it was issued to REME though another member postulated that it may have been refurbed by REME. I tend to doubt that probability considering that there is no FTR and date stamp. Interesting rifle, eh?
To the best of my knowledge the different Corps within the army did not mark small arms on a corps level, unit, regiment/battalion level yes, but not specific corps. otherwise we would be see armoured, infantry, signal, artillery corps etc marked rifles. Also extra small-arms were drawn from central stores and then returned during times of growth and shrinkage of units and corps manning levels across all corps of the army.
I have to agree with you, I've never seen Lee Enfields marked to a specific unit, which makes this rifle all the more puzzling. The mark is obviously a military stamp, but why and by whom? Hence my original post about anyone ever having encountered this before. Another thing I noticed when I was cleaning the crud off the metal was a mark I've not encountered before. There is a six pointed star with and "N" stamped inside just ahead of the knoxform on top side the barrel. I have a friend who has Skennerton's book on the Lee Enfields and he's going to see if there's anything that he can find out about the stamp. I swabbed the barrel and gave 'er a good wipe down and without any exaggeration, I'd rate the bore at 9.5 out of 10 and that's being conservative. My buddy checked it out and in his opinion, it's pristine. All in all, happy happy joy joy! It's hard to find a Long Branch in this kind of shape. I've decided to that I'm going to clean up the wood and lessen or totally eliminate the dents and divots. I'll post before and after pics when I get going on this. Thanks for the input mkrnel!
Your welcome that why we post here as we are all learning and none can really claim to be experts on Enfields, I know I am certainly not.
The star you mention is the usual mark for rust in the barrel, but that does not sound to be the case with your rifle. The N was a common mark for Navy small arms. I know that the P14 had a 6 point star with a letter to determine which Weedon Repair Standard WRS subcontractor did the repair work, maybe this mark is to determine who refitted out your rifle. but this is only conjecture without any further proof. Are there any 2 digit date stamps on the barrel?
There are several stamps near the star. There's the "43" year code which matches the 1943 Long Branch on the receiver. There's a large "F" stamped near the star and there's a small c-broad arrow denoting Canadian manufacture. There's what looks like a poorly struck proof stamp near the year stamp and there is what appears to be a poorly struck broad arrow near the "F". All kinds of interesting goodies coming to light!
if the brits had made more extensive mods would you "fix" them? if it was a modified SMLE grenade launcher with the wire wrap for example? i think that what happened to it before it left the service of its various military owners is history to be preserved
I agree- please do post photos of all of these markings.
