1943 Long Branch No.4 REME marked

Ok, here's the pics of the markings (or as best as I can get with my camera). First is the stamps on barrel. On the thickest part, you can see the Long Branch stamp. To the left up the barrel, though it's hard to make out, is a capital "F" and what looks like a partially stamped broad arrow.

Second pic, you see the date code, a proof mark, c-broad arrow, and near the bolt on the receiver you can make out the "England" stamp.

In this pic you can see the 5 pointed star with the "N" inside. Beside that is a "3" and some poorly defined stamps.

Lastly are the muzzle stamps.

I was informed from a fairly reliable source that the "England" stamp was indeed applied to foreign made arms taken into English service.
 
That 5 pointed star is new to me, maybe it is a factory Nitro proof mark, when I get a chance I will remove my 1944 longbranch's top wood to see if it has the same star mark. Maybe other Longbranch owners with more knowledge of these rifles will chime in with a more reasoned answer.

BTW, my belief is the England stamp was applied to rifles exported from England and not foreign rifles taken into service . I have a number of British made SMLE's and one No.4 made by Faz with that England stamp on them.
 
I have several books on Enfields and I can't find the star N mark in any of them. An import mark? As to the stamp on the muzzel, it has nothing to do with it's military history. Just an export stamp once sold out of service.
 
cantom said:
I've heard the US required England to be stamped on as an import mark. Funny thing though, it was made in Canada.
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Even more bizarre if that is the case, is the England stamp that I have seen on a P14 which was made by some maker called ERA!
 
points said:
I have several books on Enfields and I can't find the star N mark in any of them. An import mark? As to the stamp on the muzzel, it has nothing to do with it's military history. Just an export stamp once sold out of service.
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Yes the muzzle stamp which is also sometimes done on the barrel chamber area is the required by UK law, proof pass mark applied on all non government (military) held firearms.
 
mkrnel said:
Yes the muzzle stamp which is also sometimes done on the barrel chamber area is the required by UK law, proof pass mark applied on all non government (military) held firearms.
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Not quite, Sir. ALL former military arms sold out of service to the public are required to be subjected to Proof. The numbers you see here are the calibre, chamber length in inches and proof pressure. The crown NP is the Birmingham proof mark for Nitro-proofing.

IMO the 'ENGLAND' stamp was NOT struck there in UK - the lettering is too large - unlike the lettering on a few of my old guns - and furthermore was not a requirement for firearms made in England. Usually the makers' stamps were proof enough of origin. I reckon that this gun spent time in the USA, where the 'England' stamp was applied. As we know, occasionally to our our cost, US importers are not renowned for clinical accuracy in their various stamps for the country of origin. A friend of mine in VA has a Swiss K31 clearly stamped with 'SWEDEN' underneath the muzzle. The UK importer looked at a Lee-Enfield, and thought 'Lee-Enfield, hmmmm, that's a Brit gun, right?'

Wrong.

tac
 
tacfoley said:
Not quite, Sir. ALL former military arms sold out of service to the public are required to be subjected to Proof. The numbers you see here are the calibre, chamber length in inches and proof pressure. The crown NP is the Birmingham proof mark for Nitro-proofing.

I thought that was what I said as well!

"Yes the muzzle stamp which is also sometimes done on the barrel chamber area is the required by UK law, proof pass mark applied on all non government (military) held firearms."

Maybe it was my pronunciation.
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mkrnel said:
tacfoley said:
Not quite, Sir. ALL former military arms sold out of service to the public are required to be subjected to Proof. The numbers you see here are the calibre, chamber length in inches and proof pressure. The crown NP is the Birmingham proof mark for Nitro-proofing.

I thought that was what I said as well!

"Yes the muzzle stamp which is also sometimes done on the barrel chamber area is the required by UK law, proof pass mark applied on all non government (military) held firearms."

Maybe it was my pronunciation.
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Not too sure about your pronunciation, but the Canadian half of me as well and the Irish part had a problem with your statement. I remain totally confused as to what you mean by 'non government [military] held firearms'.

Every firearm that formerly belonged to the British military, that is subsequently sold onto the civilian market as no longer required, has to be proofed, and stamped as shown. Usually this stamp appears on the barrel adjacent to the receiver. The original military proofing is not acceptable on the civilian market.

Civilian-made firearms of EVERY kind that are made OUTSIDE the CIP signaturee nations also have to be proofed before they can be sold.

tac
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tacfoley said:
mkrnel said:
Not too sure about your pronunciation, but the Canadian half of me as well and the Irish part had a problem with your statement. I remain totally confused as to what you mean by 'non government [military] held firearms'.

Every firearm that formerly belonged to the British military, that is subsequently sold onto the civilian market as no longer required, has to be proofed, and stamped as shown. Usually this stamp appears on the barrel adjacent to the receiver. The original military proofing is not acceptable on the civilian market.

Civilian-made firearms of EVERY kind that are made OUTSIDE the CIP signaturee nations also have to be proofed before they can be sold.

tac
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No problem, I am 1/3 Irish if that matters.

I meant all firearms including military Firearms not currently held by her Majesty's services. Just thought the meaning of my shorten sentence would be understood, doesn't really matter much and I am happy to expand on what I was trying to convey.

I'm pretty sure we both know the general requirements of what the British proof laws call for but some others on this forum may not so maybe our covering this in more detail is in order to help them as well.

Hope no offence was taken.
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mkrnel said:
tacfoley said:
No problem, I am 1/3 Irish if that matters.

I meant all firearms including military Firearms not currently held by her Majesty's services. Just thought the meaning of my shorten sentence would be understood, doesn't really matter much and I am happy to expand on what I was trying to convey.

Gotcha.

I'm pretty sure we both know the general requirements of what the British proof laws call for but some others on this forum may not so maybe our covering this in more detail is in order to help them as well.

Hope no offence was taken.
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None at all, Sir. I hope I didn't come over as too much of a wise-ass either. In addition to my other afflictions, I am also left-handed, and when I had hair, was a red-head.

Best

tac
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Stop calling me sir, I worked for a living.

No offences were taken on my part either. I am not inclined to hold any grudges or even stew or dwell on people who may appear to be any type of asses, or donkeys either for that matter, for which I know you are neither.

My eldest daughter is a red haired lass and the youngest a lefty too, so I would think these are minor afflictions not even worthy of a second thought.

Best regards.
 
As far as that star N, I have no idea what it means but there are two of them on the bolt head of my '42 Long Branch and one on the Knox as well. My rifle went all over, served us in WWII, was Rebuilt at Long Branch in '46 but not rebarrelled, then served in India before returning to Canada and coming to me via P&S a few years ago.

No offense intended Lawrence, but I believe this may be a similar story to your rifle? A mix match of parts like that and unidentifiable marks are behind my reasoning. I'm no expert either though.
 
flying pig said:
As far as that star N, I have no idea what it means but there are two of them on the bolt head of my '42 Long Branch and one on the Knox as well. My rifle went all over, served us in WWII, was Rebuilt at Long Branch in '46 but not rebarrelled, then served in India before returning to Canada and coming to me via P&S a few years ago.

No offense intended Lawrence, but I believe this may be a similar story to your rifle? A mix match of parts like that and unidentifiable marks are behind my reasoning. I'm no expert either though.
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No offense taken at all. Isn't that what we're here for? I mean the exchange of information in a shared sport and/or hobby.
 
#4mk1(T) said:
To the best of my knowledge the "England" stamp was required by US law to indicate the country of origin not necessarily the country of manufacture.
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Thank you. I've received that same information from a couple of different sources and I believe that you're correct. Still can't get a definitive answer on the "N" inside the star though.
 
LawrenceN said:
Thank you. I've received that same information from a couple of different sources and I believe that you're correct. Still can't get a definitive answer on the "N" inside the star though.
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Is like to know that as well. I looked at the rifle again this morning and it has the N star on the receiver not the Knox. The mark on the bolt head is simply two stars.
 
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