1st timer builder please help.

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robedsquirrel84

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Hi,
I am embarking on a project to build a flint lock or possible precussion rifle.
THE OLD WAY. My goal fo rthis project is to build a military style rifle not musket. But of my own design. So if i lived in 1800 what would i build you know.
so i have a few quesions:
1) what length barrel should i use and why. (barrel will be rifles.)
2) what caliber should i use. and why. (.43 , .50 ... ect)
3) Flint or precussion cap.
4) type of wood to used and how to finish the wood.

i know this is asking alot but i apreciate any help i can get to make an informed decision on my to be huntingé target rifle.

thanks again
Ed:sniper::dancingbanana:
 
Ca. 1800 means flintlock, percussion came later.
Military rifles - as opposed to muskets - weren't all that widely used in that period.
The British Baker rifle comes to mind, as does the US M1803. In the late 1700s, the US used Kentucky styled rifles made by Pennsylvania contractors. In continental Europe military Jaeger rifles were used.
The US used .54, the Brits, .65.
Check Track of the Wolf, and The Rifle Shoppe for parts sets.
 
robedsquirrel84 said:
Hi,
I am embarking on a project to build a flint lock or possible precussion rifle.
THE OLD WAY. My goal fo rthis project is to build a military style rifle not musket. But of my own design. So if i lived in 1800 what would i build you know.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you need to do a bunch of reading first; there seem to be a number of contradictions in what you are looking for. As Tiriaq has mentioned, almost all of the military long arms are smooth bore at that date. All would be flintlock. You want the gun to be of your own design but you want it to be a military style. It sounds to me like you need to read up on the military rifles of the various armies of the world circa 1800 then decide on what caliber you want to shoot or at least what you want to do with the gun which will somewhat define the caliber. Also those military guns with longish barrels would be pretty darn heavy if they were made with a relatively small caliber barrel but the original contours.
At the moment you are basically asking us to tell you what you want with the qualification that it is more or less none of the historic guns but it has to have historic roots.

cheers mooncoon
 
How "old way" are you figuring to go, here.

Forge weld a barrel, old way, or make something that looks like it's old, old way?

Take a look around to find a copy of the video "Gunsmiths Of Colonial Williamsburg". It was filmed in the late 70's or early 80's, but it goes through pretty much the whole process.

Figure about 6 months to a year of spare time, making tools, then another year or more making mistakes, learning how to use them. Maybe more if you are not quick to see the cause-effect relationship of some of the stuff. Little things like trying to get a forge weld to stick with dirty coal, or a copper contaminated forge.

Homework. Do lots. If you know what era and style you are trying to make, why are you asking us what lengths and bore sizes to use?

Track of the Wolf has both a decent catalog, and website. Check out their book selection.

The Rifle Shoppe supposedly has a decent catalog, but their website sucks nads, and I got tired of the flashing text. Not to be viewed if prone to epileptic seizures or are just generally adverse to crappy websites.

Cheers
Trev
 
robedsquirrel84 said:
Hi,
I am embarking on a project to build a flint lock or possible precussion rifle.
THE OLD WAY. My goal fo rthis project is to build a military style rifle not musket. But of my own design. So if i lived in 1800 what would i build you know.
so i have a few quesions:
1) what length barrel should i use and why. (barrel will be rifles.)
2) what caliber should i use. and why. (.43 , .50 ... ect)
3) Flint or precussion cap.
4) type of wood to used and how to finish the wood.

i know this is asking alot but i apreciate any help i can get to make an informed decision on my to be huntingé target rifle.

thanks again
Ed:sniper::dancingbanana:
Click to expand...

I like your ambitious approach...
Where are you starting from...previous experience in gun building/gunsmitiing?
Is this you first kick at such a project?
Any experience in building from a kit?
I checked SittingFox site and they have beautiful kits where you have to do all the wood inlay for the lock...that would be my challenge!
J
 
Hi thanks to all who have added to this forum.

Ok.. the 1st link had a point. My time period is not exact. I should clarify my goal. I wish to have a military style of MY design. But built using old ways such as hand tools a ect. I am a skilled machinist who regulary make my own toys, and gun parts for my Norinco m14 and other rifes. But i have always had a love of the old ways. This is intended to be a project for me to hunt with. And for target. I was hoping to get advice on choosing a barrel length. and actions. I have the last 3 track of the wolf books and this is good. but if i ont know what i need to put my project togeather to make my order. SO NO this is not a historicaly accurate rifle. but it is a muzzel loader.
to be hand made no power tools. using brain and inginuity. with plenty or reseach and advise to make my dream come true.

and i apreciate all the help peopel throw my way.
thanks
ED
 
Few things are more fun then building a flintlock!!

I think "my humble opinion" you should think about what caliber you want .
Lock designs "french,germanic, or british"
Half stock or full stock etc....

The variables are as diverse as you want.
Myself I have always really loved the queen anne style locks "rounded with goosenecked hammer" and the germanic locks "angular and pointed"

So maybe you can start in the old fashion

Lock- pick out a lock

stock- find out the style of stock that captures your imagination

Barrel- caliber and length

When you have a vague idea of what you want it to look like Im shure many of us will be more the tickled to help out!!

A WORD OF WARNING!!!!!;)

Black powder flintlocks, building them and firing them is EXTREMLY addictive.
One flintlock leads to 2 then 3 and beyond,
onece you begin there is no turning back....EVER....
The fire the smell and even the cleaning will soon be nearly all you think about.

Cheers, and welcome to the dark side of the shooting sports.
 
Ok.

I believe i have chosen a caliber .43 because it is ample for hunting up to deer im told. and is fast and accurate.
I think a 32 inch barrel or 38 not to sure yet. with a hex shape.
but am still debating the flint or the precussion cap.
But definatly a full length military style stock with som sort of bayoneté dagger.

thanks
ed:sniper:
 
.43 may be "ample" but check the regs to see if it's legal for hunting deer with.

Out here in AB, .45 cal or bigger is required, IIRC.

It can make a difference in resale, if a buyer is looking to hunt with it, as well as availability of barrels.

Percussion longarms have to be registered. No biggie, but it has to be done. No requirement for a flint longarm to be registered.

Cheers
Trev
 
I would suggest .54 caliber for hunting and .50 or .54 for target shooting; you need something heavy enough to move the gongs in target shooting. I would also suggest a barrel between 32 and 36" although a lot of military barrels were 39". With the lighter caliber, your barrel will be heavier and you might find a shorter one to be more convenient for that reason. There is nothing wrong with a 42" barrel except weight if you make it non tapered and or swamped.
You might want to look at some of the Swiss and German military rifles for ideas of semi short guns.

cheers mooncoon
 
thanks ok
so on second thought itèll be a .50 cal thanks to the gentlemen who brought up a good point in the regulation cal fo rhunting deer. im told its the same in ont but a guy from my gun range. makes sense
thanks.
 
An interesting thread since I'm looking at making up a BP rifle at some point for giggles. I may not try for something unique such as you are doing but this thread is good inspiration in any event.

I saw some material either here or on another muzzle loading web site talking about sabot rounds for hunting. Perhaps go with a large'ish bore and use a reduced sabot round for hunting and then go wad&ball for targets and "authenticity"?
 
BCRider said:
I saw some material either here or on another muzzle loading web site talking about sabot rounds for hunting. Perhaps go with a large'ish bore and use a reduced sabot round for hunting and then go wad&ball for targets and "authenticity"?
Click to expand...

Doesn't work so good.

Pick one, or the other, you can't have both. Barrels with a twist rate to shoot sabots well don't tend to shoot round ball worth a damn, and vice versa.

Round ball barrels tend to have a slower twist, while sabot and Minie ball barrels tend to have a faster twist. Some of the intermediate twist rates work sort of OK for both, but you are better of choosing one or the other, and working up a decent load for it.

Cheers
Trev
 
Intermediate twist

I think going with a 1:48 would be a good compromise if you feel you absolutly have to shoot conicals. I have had rifles with this twist and they gave excellent accuracy in both types of projectiles but you had to work up a suitable load for round ball. It just seems that with this rate of twist (1:48) is somewhat fussy so you will have to play around with: ball diameter, patch thickness, and powder load but thats a big part of the fun (?) of black powder.
I did not get good accuracy out of conicals untill the powder loads got around 100 grains. I was shooting Lee REAL bullets so i think you need enough of a charge to "bump" them up so they engage the rifling.Good accuracy though and I am sure they would have plenty of thump to them.

Steve
 
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