2008 Quebec IPSC Provincials

Quigley said:
I think the cominality here (between BC and QC) is the is the half day format (shoot AM / Work PM...or vice versa)

You can only shoot so many stages / ranges in a half day...which limits the amount of shooters for a given match (or the number of stages)...so while I agree that a half day shoot is a great idea...there will be circumstances (based on number of shooters) where it simply won't work.

If someone can map out for me how you could put 250ish shooters through a Level 3 (Thurs - Sunday) in a single half day shoot...I'd be genuinly interested in hearing how...

Cheers
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Summer Blast: 1/2 format 10 stages approximately 250 rounds 316 shooters (last year) sold out with a waiting list this year all for $75 ..and no must work stuff

http://lchico.5u.com/blast.html

Oh and Pat Lager ran the AWARE for 5 years 1/2 format almost 400 shooters. The S & W Invitational was run the same and those matches was always sold out too. The S & W had optional work that would get you tickets for the Workers prize draw, I won $50 of Saffariland stuff, I saw guys winning guns holsters, brass etc. They never had a problem getting help or wokers....
 
yes but lets compare apples to apples here. first off she had fixed CRO/RO's most whom i am told donated their reimbursement back to the match. Secondly the US has a large enough cadre of match officials who don't shot to be able to do this (and you should see the threads about using non-shooting match officials.) Lastly the US has a match larger sponsor base for support of their matches.Most of those sponsors have little interest in sponsoring Canadian matches because we are such a small percentage of their market and these days it is to much of a PIA to get things into Canada because of their laws.
 
Yeah I just realised this, 135 Shooters X 100$ match fees = 13 500$
Add the sponsors, remove IPSC fees, food, material for the matchs.

Who is cashing the 5-10 000$ left?

I have no problem giving a hand, I always patch, score, remove brass and put target up and running in match I went to but looking at this, hiring 20 person for the week-end at 10$/hour would be doable.

Asking to work the day after you shoot (come for 2 days minimum) is non-sense as you have to pay the fuel, motel, etc. a level 3 match that cost you near 500-600$ if you aren't near.

An easy way to do it would be a "no work fee". Pay 30$ for the match and 100$ more if you don't work. That would pay for workers and give a choice. That would remove the high price for those who work.

I really never understood why you are forced to work when you pay a high entry fee. When I go to the restaurant, I pay for the food and the service. with 15 000$+, it's not a Local Level 1-2 match with 10-20 shooters.

My 0.02$

black said:
Summer Blast: 1/2 format 10 stages approximately 250 rounds 316 shooters (last year) sold out with a waiting list this year all for $75 ..and no must work stuff

http://lchico.5u.com/blast.html

Oh and Pat Lager ran the AWARE for 5 years 1/2 format almost 400 shooters. The S & W Invitational was run the same and those matches was always sold out too. The S & W had optional work that would get you tickets for the Workers prize draw, I won $50 of Saffariland stuff, I saw guys winning guns holsters, brass etc. They never had a problem getting help or wokers....
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Icefire said:
Yeah I just realised this, 135 Shooters X 100$ match fees = 13 500$
Add the sponsors, remove IPSC fees, food, material for the matchs.

Who is cashing the 5-10 000$ left?
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:rolleyes:

Tell ya what...if you can put on a match of that quality (materials, trophies, IPSC fees, rooms for CRO's etc) for between $3,500 and $8,500 (your math not mine)...please draw up an agreement and IPSC Ontario will put you on retainer. Just make sure you don't run out of magic ferry dust...:cool:

No ones cashing in...I can assure you of that. It's a volunteer sport...you obviously don't get that
 
I know it's a volonteer sport, but I find strange that no one is cashing in.

If no one is paid, their is 13 500$ in registration fee + sponsorship.

For 15000-20000$ that get in, you are telling me it it's all used up for a Provincial with nothing left, nothing cashed in?

I have no problem someone or IPSC QC/ON/Canada cashing in, but if it's the case, it become for a profit and player should not work.

If no one cash in, well there is something wrong with the math, as never it would cost that much if no one get paid. I was looking at USPSA big match in Vermont, it's not even 45$ for 225 round, 10-12 stage. Just too bad I don't have my Form6NIA yet.

I just try to understand. If it's non profit, I have no problem with that, as my Club is non-profit and don't even make 30K$ per year before depenses. But there is some club that surely is profit oriented, that make money out of some match and you must shoot and work. I'm sure it's worldwide but I find it cheap for those who work.

Maybe I'm not realistic but it's the way I see it, if i'm totally wrong, just correct me.
 
Are we still on this... ? Without meaning to sound crude or rude, everyone, please get over it.

If, for whatever reason, it's not feasible for you to work one shift, then this isn't a match for you.. There are plenty of other matches where you don't have to work, beyond patching during your squad's shooting time.
 
I guess I should have opened another thread but It was on the subject.

As for work outside the squad time, I would have done it, but not a second day.
 
Icefire said:
I guess I should have opened another thread but It was on the subject.

As for work outside the squad time, I would have done it, but not a second day.
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Who said it had to be on a second day? It's a half day shoot...if you shoot the morning you can work the afternoon.( assuming you only plan to work the minimum...

I do find it sad (and sadly typical) that you refuse to go a second day...

This will be my ninth year shooting the QC provincials...and the ninth year that I spend 3 days there (work Friday, Shoot Sat am, work Sunday) and I know of at least another 15 of my buddies that do the same (and none of us are from Quebec)

Thank god your section has people that are willing to do the work...but there's an inherent danger in relying on a small group to carry the load...and don't complain when they burn out and there're no one ready (or willing) to take over...
 
Quigley, first of all, I work a minimum of 60-70 hours a week currently, sometime I only get 2-3 day off in the months, spending 3 days in Ontario for a 4 hour shooting is out of the question for this.

I also decided to NOT go to the provincial because of a PM from the guy taking reservation for it, he was just nasty and unspormanship. so instead of giving my money to IPSC Quebec (FQT who doesn't support legal handgun ownership unless it's for Olympic as per their president before the Quebec Nationnal Assembly for the Anastasya Law), I'll get my Form6NIA and try some match in the US and some in Ontario instead.

I have shot 3 or 4 times my guns in the last 12 months because of lack of time, so going 3 days is not an option, and if I was to take a week off, it would not be for that either. I like IPSC, but not to the point to do it competively, just for the fun of it. I could go and just not work and I would not care to have zero. But like I said, I would have no problem going for a full day to work.

Anyway, it's just beating a dead horse.
 
This summer I am going to shoot Polish Open and I will share with you how they solve problems of this nature.
It is a Level III, 264 rounds, 14 stages including 2 CLC.
They have decided that this year every IPSC provincial section will build their stage or stages. Also, if qualify, they will RO that stage.
Those who build and RO, have been released from paying match fees as well as hotel and food is free from the day they will start working on particular stage.
Most of them will shoot prematch and then RO, fix targets, tape them and so on over next two days. They split match over two days.
As for the cost, it is 75 Euro, approx 120 dollars.
Those working, save 3-4 days hotel and food and match cost.

They had other option, hired group of people who will set stages but this year they have decided to go with every section building one or two stages.

Maybe something to consider

Here is a link:
h ttp://po2008.ipsc-poland.org/en/info.htm
 
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Icefire said:
spending 3 days in Ontario for a 4 hour shooting is out of the question for this.

.
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I think that something is really messed up here.

Nobody is saying that you MUST stay 3 days. (Although many people even Ont people will do so for this match).

What is being said is you will spend ONE FULL DAY at the range.

Part of it shooting and part of it working the match.



At least that is my impression.
 
stormbringer said:
I think that something is really messed up here.

Nobody is saying that you MUST stay 3 days. (Although many people even Ont people will do so for this match).

What is being said is you will spend ONE FULL DAY at the range.

Part of it shooting and part of it working the match.



At least that is my impression.
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You definetly got that right STORM



The main thing we want is after or before you shoot you help out 3 hours with patching ,reseting steel and brass cleanning the ranges

the 3 hours work is to prevent people coming in , shoot and going home early when there<s plenty of work to do

For those who think is too much asked please STAY HOME:sniper::runaway:
 
ok, let's change the subject a little.. ;)

Philippe, will you be emailing people to let them know (a) you got the forms ok, and (b) which preferences you were able to accomodate? Thanks!
 
I know that Storm, I was just saying to Quigley that even if I wanted to, I got way too much work at the job and at home to got for a small vacation just to shoot.

Hell, I got a new toy last week, and I just didn't got the time to make some ammo to shoot it.

stormbringer said:
I think that something is really messed up here.

Nobody is saying that you MUST stay 3 days. (Although many people even Ont people will do so for this match).

What is being said is you will spend ONE FULL DAY at the range.

Part of it shooting and part of it working the match.



At least that is my impression.
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qc prov

omen said:
ok, let's change the subject a little.. ;)

Philippe, will you be emailing people to let them know (a) you got the forms ok, and (b) which preferences you were able to accomodate? Thanks!
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as of today all people who send me the registration form are ok and you first choice is ok too......like the years before ,,,,first come first serve

if there some conflict i<ll contact the person by phone or email whatever i have available

:slap:
 
Everyone is really busy these days, but you have to make time for yourself.....and what better way to do that then spending the weekend shooting and visiting with friends. I never think about the work at matches, but about the fun we have with the shooters and of the deck party. If I have to constantly worry about working or helping out, then its time to look into another sport, it is a sport that requires everyone help at one time or another, thus making the sport more fun for everyone.
I am looking so forward to this weekend, but the way Philip, my application is in the mail.
See you in September......:dancingbanana::wave:
Rachel
 
Why not something along the lines of

1) you get paid to work the match
2) those who do not CHOOSE to help at the match, pay an extra $10.
3) pool the money from the non workers, to split between those who do work it..
4) the bigger the match, and the less workers means more work for those who do help,. and they get more $$

The choice is yours.. get paid to work, or pay someone else to work it.. the fact still ramains that work needs to get done, and rewarding those who do work, is good incentive.
 
ckc123 said:
...snip...those who do not CHOOSE to help at the match, pay an extra $10.
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$10?
I spend more than that on breakfast before leaving for the range.
I probably spend that in gas getting to the range.
At $10 there would be a lot of people choose to not work.
Make it $100 and maybe your system might work.
 
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ckc123 said:
Why not something along the lines of

1) you get paid to work the match
2) those who do not CHOOSE to help at the match, pay an extra $10.
3) pool the money from the non workers, to split between those who do work it..
4) the bigger the match, and the less workers means more work for those who do help,. and they get more $$

The choice is yours.. get paid to work, or pay someone else to work it.. the fact still ramains that work needs to get done, and rewarding those who do work, is good incentive.
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The problem would be that the people who paid (to not work) would probably get all pissy if they had to do anything even remotely strenuous, such as lifting a popper or patching a target. I personally don't want some lazy turd on my sqaud who has a chip on his shoulder cause he paid $10.
 
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