2010 CFSAC Matches 1-4 Format- Perspectives? Reflections? Reactions?

Hungry

Hungry

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We just shot Matches 1 to 4 of the newly minted 2010 CFSAC rules... It's on the DND website under Competitions.... :D

On Saturday 29 May 2010, we shot all the serials in Matches 1 through 4 at Amiens Range, CFB Borden.

I ran the butts and thought it was a very fast match. Fewer sighters and at least 9 handhelds :eek: down in the butts PER target bay. No joking! It was intense. That was my first impression down in the butts. We had to walk-through, talk-through my butts markers / competitors regarding the targets for the next serials per each match. Each marker really has to be on the ball and organize their targets/handhelds. Yes, we did install a few fig 11's and 12's in the frame, but that was it. No more 4 foots with their A, B, and C faces for the 200, 300, and 500 m/yd distances. Sure is different. :cool:

The scoring was all completed in the butts because we would run things in 4 relays and always have 2 markers per target. One working the targets, and one carrying out the scoring of the current shooter who is shooting and making their way down to our position as the match progressed. :D

Not too much time for goofing off or having a smoke like the Matches 1-12 that I've shot for over 20 years. :rolleyes: Down in the butts I mean. ;)

The shooters would report to me that the shooting is intensive and exciting. Much focus to the task at hand (reloading, mag stuffing, picking up empty mags - dump pouch, competent rifle handling, IA's , etc) has to be dedicated if you are going to succeed at these matches.

One difference I noticed (really remarkably) was the lack of all that kit / gear/ bags/ gun cases/ ammo boxes/ spotting scopes & stands/shooting jackets, shooting gloves, roll up matts, golf carts, shopping carts, wagons, sleds , skiis on the bipods for 8.5" barreled AR's, yada yada yada). I found it interesting that the shooters just carried their ammo, kit , H2O on their bodies in a small pack/ 3 day pack/ assault pack and the tac vest/chest rig combination. They all admitted that it sure was a nice change to carry all that you needed on your body ; in the spirit of Service Rifle ;) I am interpreting. :)

The shooters with ORA run Service CQB clinics/matches were telling me that skills learned and reinforced at Service CQB events sure came in handy. Ex: magazine changing drills, IA drills, situation awareness habits, kit management, learning what works here and what works on TV or in front of their mirror! yuk yuk yuk ;) That was reassuring to know and receive feedback from.

From the Butts O perspective, the target manipulation is equally as intense. Lots of yelling and screaming on my part. Thankfully I learned all that in my 5's course and teaching drill at BMT/GMT crses. :p Shooters were telling me that after the rifles had been cleared and the flag went GREEN; they thought that they could relax down in the butts. That was not the case. It was quite a shock for them to be told to jump around and arrange their targets in sequence and prepare to provide an equally intense experience for the shooting relay.

I do have to thank all the authors of these matches. Without their experiences and insights, these new matches ; taken to the next level, would not have gelled! Wow, Thanks dudes! Job well done! I am thoroughly impressed. What a different level of intensity and thrill!

Anyways, my head is running at a hundred kliks an hour. Lots of lessons learned and soon I have to sit down with Timk and discuss our AAR (after action report, well really 'lessons learned') so that we can improve in our quest to put on the new & intense SR matches for the soldiers (ORA has this mandate), sailors, and yes, some airmen/women. ;)

Those of you who just shot with us... what are your thoughts? Reflections ?

Cheers,

Barney
 
I'm going to speak / reply to the Timk&Barney show. Is a bear catholic? Was the Pope a Naxi? :D Okay seriously, if you cannot run all 4 matches in one day, your #### SHOULD fall off. :evil:

Please don't take this text out of it's context of levity. I'm deliberately speaking this way out of enthusiasm for the new matches. I am excited for the CF & civilian shooters. Understand where we are coming from. Many of you have shot in our matches and competed with us before. You know how fast we run things with a minimum of goofing off. We pride ourselves in presenting a quality match (many of you have known us for over 10 years now). With this in mind, know that I love these matches because the steep learning curve and the latest growing pains are truly worth the energy invested! ;)

Okay, back to my answer........ :cool:

More seriously, YES especially if the target prep is respected properly and carried out. More so if the soldiers are up to speed on 'situational awareness' and are not on the shooting team merely because the OIC wanted to provide employment for a couple of weeks to a bunch of SQ or DP1 graduates. Hopefully there will be a minimum of a language barrier down in the butts and also on the firing line because you are aware of the skills expectations for safety, et al.

BTW, when I speak to target prep, I'm referring to the correct numbers of fig 12, fig 11, fig 12c, properly backed (foamie or corroplast?) fig 14 x 5, and hopefully fig 20 (L&R). Having to improvise with a single fig 11 handheld because not many/enough of the fig 20 (L&R)'s are in the supply system (CFB Borden vs. Connaught RPTC) surely sped things up in terms of target presentation during ALL of the mover stages.

In short, with the right motivation(s), I believe we can put many people through in one day. Many ifs, ands, or buts (pun intended on the butts :D ) come into play. Frankly, I know we can do it if we push people down in the butts and also the shooters have mastered their correct PWTx skills & drills. :)

I also have to place credit and recognize the people behind one of the latest amendments (big thank you here....). TimK just brought me up to speed on the most recent change and that was the elimination of a certain (don't ask me the serial) match that required the single handheld fig 14 AND the double handheld fig 14's. They were a royal pain to practice with along with the existing crop of 9 :eek: handhelds per bay: 4 x fig 11, 3 x fig 12, 2 x fig 12c. We had the extra fig 11 to stand in for the 2 missing fig 20's (L&R). ;)


Hope this helps clarify things.

:cheers:

Barney (Humble Butts O)
 
We're using 11's for the movers here too.

Simplifies our targetry as well.

I did the trial last fall at CRPTC, and yes, things could definitely be done in a day.

NS
 
Intense, exhilarating and down right FUN!

I am a civvy that shot in the new CFSAC match and I now know from personal experience that this is by far the best shooting I have done to date.

I agree with Hungry when he says kit management is key. If you can't carry it on your person (be it shoulders, belt or in your hands) then you don't need it. Leave the mirror commando junk at home and bring the kit required to do the job.


I put my Bushmaster AR-15 HBAR 16" and C79 in service this match and it worked well. Mag management is a B!T@H, but only if you don't have the correct webbing and mag holsters.

I am looking forward to future SR matches and will be a valiant supporter of this discipline going forward.

To all who could not make it out.... you have no idea what you are missing.

To those that did make it out... it was my pleasure shooting alongside of you. The comradery and team atmosphere made it all the more fun. We are here to compete, but everyone is willing to help our fellow shooters every which way we can.

KWS
 
Hey Hungry & TimK, thanks for running the match!!! I have a lot of fun...

Anyway, I only have 2 things to say:

1) Good mag management is a must!!! I forget to bring another 10rd mag for Match 2.3 (Walking Rapid) and I didn't have enough time to fire off all my round with the 2 5 rds mag I'm using for that stage! (I only have 2 10 rds mag on me but they are saved for Match 2.4)

2) Match 4.3 is a #####!!! It seem you are kneeling forever at 300 waiting to shoot your 20 exposures!!!

All in all, good match...things run pretty fast...everything have to be carry on you...I have my rifle, tac vest, helmet, 11 x 5rd mag, 2 x 10rd mag (will carry 3 x 10 rder from now on), 3L camelbak, dump pouch, and 200 plus rd in my other pouch with me all day long!!! No going back to your kit between match and you reload your mag whenever you have time.
 
The matches in themselves were a lot of fun to shoot. My old knees don't handle the kneeling moving to well anymore, but they made it.. lol

Almost as intense as the stuff on the firing line is the butts management. Holy crap it was a lot of work to stay organized! :D

Proper kit management a must, and proper gear a must. Doesn't have to be super fancy, but proper placement and capacities for mags is key. Dump bags are uber handy, and remember to wear your hydration bladder if you have one. I forgot mine and couldn't get back to my ruck for a drink... Thank god Tim had put some water in the butts or I woulda fried in the heat like bug.


Outside of the fact that something in my rifle / scope / ammo combo is letting me down on the 300 400 ranges, it was a great shoot!
 
I had 7 5/30's and 3 LAR 10 rounders. Had another 5 5/30's in my truck if they were needed, but if you manage your kit (read, carry enough extra ammo on you and stuff mags whenever you get a second) you can get by with 7-10 5 round mags and 2 or 3 10 rounders I think.
 
Sniper1:

I wanted to get this match under our belt (Sat 29 May 2010) so that we can get back to you and advise what you can expect when you shoot this match on 12 June at Connaught. Yes, the M14 is severely disadvantaged (even more so NOW) because of the 5/20 mags. And yes, I did buy myself 5 x LAR 10 round AR Pistol magazines with couplers from www.shopquestar.com (a board sponsor) for the matches where I need 10 rds of rapid fire and the rules DO NOT specify 2 x 5 rd magazines with mandatory mag change. :D

This is a much more dynamic match now! :evil:

Hmmmm... maybe I should shoot it with an M1 Garand.... yuk yuk yuk BUT I have no time to run back and recover my empty clips. At least with the AR platform, one can get by with a C9 (CF issued tac vest) pouch as a dump pouch, so to speak. Some people have used leg rigs to mount a dump pouch and that can work also, since the shooter is advancing and shooting, and then reloading for the next match. NO TIME to go back and retrieve yer mags!

TimK suggest shoving the empty magazine (5/30) into your shirt or behind your plate carrier or chest rig. I like that suggestion! :)

Now on the more serious side, the Cdn Ranger Patrol Group(s) Teams will be shooting this same match with their No.4's and it can be done (I'm told.... just don't ask me...)

All of this discussion is helping me 'flesh out' my quasi-AAR (after action report), Thanks! :evil:

Cheers,
Barney
 
Don't worry sniper1, I'll be there with my M14 and feeling disadvantaged by those silly 10 rounds 5.56 mags. Just think that they needed to fire 20 rounds of that puny stuff when we can fire 5 to get the job done.

I'll show you the quick reload you can do with the M14 with one stroke. TimK showed it to me and it works fast.

I can't wait! Allot of QC shooters on this up coming June match. We even brought our own professional photographer :). Phil is coming for the food Barney :D.
 
Beltfed: Great news.....

The answer is yes, 2 mags can be coupled.

Ref 2010 RAM, chapt 6, 6.04, 4, d. states

" d. Two magazines may be attached together to provide for a quicker reload "


Hope this helps!!

Cheers,
Barney
 
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