2012 Team Hoser 3-Gun Challenge

[667]

It was my first time on the Texas star, and 7.5 shot was not enough to take them off,

#7.5 target loads with no choke might not be enough to take them off...
People have to figure out what the best tools for the game are.

Most of the stages felt like handgun was just thrown on the end,

Range layout, regulations and safety considerations forced that in a way.
The stages also needed to be run/reset in good time. Being able to clear/re holster the HG immediately after the CoF is shot is most effecient.

it could have been a two gun match and it would have been just as fun.

Yeah, but.... then it wouldn't have been a "3-Gun"

 

[Rotorwing_Savior]

Great match guys, thanks very much for running it. It was a ton of fun, and obviously a ton of work. I'll try to get back that way soon.

 

[Cmiller82]

#7.5 target loads with no choke might not be enough to take them off...
People have to figure out what the best tools for the game are.

This match was a learning session for me... I went with my IPSC setup, and cargo pants. I didn't want to spend hundred's on stuff I didn't need. I now have a nice little wish list of stuff I want and stuff I need.

One quick question, I was told slings are not allowed. I can understand not being able to use them for transport, but are they allowed for support?

Range layout, regulations and safety considerations forced that in a way.
The stages also needed to be run/reset in good time. Being able to clear/re holster the HG immediately after the CoF is shot is most effecient.

I hadn't thought about that... good point. The clays are fun with the long guns, about trying them out in the handgun portion? Fast reset, and challenging to hit! The steel was also fun with the HG.

Yeah, but.... then it wouldn't have been a "3-Gun"

I just meant that rifle and SG was so much fun, and I shoot HG so much elsewhere, that leaving them out of a stage or two would not have decreased my enjoyment. I'm not suggesting a 2-gun match


P.S.
Every time I replay stage 5 in my head, I smile...

 

[mechanik]

Thanks to you guys for putting on a fun match. I know it's a lot of work.

Unfortunately I got overheated and had to pull out after 3 stages so I only got a taste of stages 3, 4, and 5.

I had a lot of fun, so don't take this as a slight, but my constructive criticism was that the stages weren't very newbie friendly, due to the difficulty/par times. I understand why the par times were there (to make sure stages ended on time... have to move everyone through), but it's kind of frustrating timing out all the the time. I'm not sure how other squads fared but it seemed like 2/3 to 3/4 of the people on my squad were timing out regularly. From a newbie point of view, it seemed like we needed either twice as much time or half the difficulty.

Stage design was largely very good in terms of number/type of targets/target placement but lowering the number of required hits on auto-reset poppers would probably have allowed everyone to finish and feel better about themselves.

About the only part I didn't like was the polymer knockdown target inside the cutout in the no-shoot target. That to me doesn't seem "practical." If you're trying to simulate "you must shoot this bad guy through the heart" then I would think making the target all black (hard cover) would have been what you'd want to do. I can't imagine a situation where there would be a good guy in real life with a doughnut hole through him that I'm going to shoot through.

The match like I said was a lot of fun, so please don't take the above too negatively. On the whole I want to stress that I had a blast and that I'm really thankful to you guys for putting on this match. That is the more important message here. Ontario needs more matches like this.

My favourite stage I would say was stage 5, as it was the most freestyle of the three stages I shot, and wasn't forcing my fat ass into various states of discomfort to shoot through lots of low ports. I prefer stages like that that have more than one way to solve the challenge. Kicked myself afterwards for not being the guy that realized that "you can't use the table as a rest while shooting" doesn't mean you can't use the dump bin instead for the same purpose.

Thanks again guys. I'll be back again, hopefully after practicing my load-4's a lot more lol... think I dropped more shells than I loaded

 

[667]

Thanks to you guys for putting on a fun match. I know it's a lot of work.

Are you kidding? That only took about 2 hours to set up... Not.

my constructive criticism was that the stages weren't very newbie friendly, due to the difficulty/par times.

There are newbies at every match... There are also experienced shooters looking for a challenge.
Hopefully the level of challenge gives some the motivation to up their game.

I understand why the par times were there (to make sure stages ended on time... have to move everyone through),

Yes.. par time limit is a match management tool. If we didn't have it we could quite possibly still be at the range

but it's kind of frustrating timing out all the the time. I'm not sure how other squads fared but it seemed like 2/3 to 3/4 of the people on my squad were timing out regularly.

'Working on the scores.. I think you're a little high on your guess.. Stage 3 seems to have a higher # of time outs, but it's not due to the stage design.
I RO'd that stage and most of the time outs were due to poor stage management by the shooter, Mechanical hiccups and the inability to get past 'em... (Tap, Rack. Bang dammit!! )

From a newbie point of view, it seemed like we needed either twice as much time or half the difficulty.

Well... You're not a newbie anymore
Up your game and kick some ass next time

lowering the number of required hits on auto-reset poppers would probably have allowed everyone to finish and feel better about themselves.

'Not the purpose of a shooting match... We're here to whittle away at your self esteem until you decide to either sulk away or come back next time to whoop some ass.

About the only part I didn't like was the polymer knockdown target inside the cutout in the no-shoot target. That to me doesn't seem "practical." If you're trying to simulate "you must shoot this bad guy through the heart" then I would think making the target all black (hard cover) would have been what you'd want to do. I can't imagine a situation where there would be a good guy in real life with a doughnut hole through him that I'm going to shoot through.

This is a game.. 'Not "simulating" anything... 'Just a penalty target in close proximity to and surrounding a shoot target... Nothing more/less.

Ontario needs more matches like this.

Trouble is theer aren't enough people dumb enough to take it on

 

[Rooky]

Since i had to miss this one is there anything planned for the near future 667? Is there gonna be another pistol match this year? I'm signed up for the seminar in July and am looking very forward to it.

 

[Runningfool]

I have to echo 667's comments wrt the par time thing. As much as I hated to see some guys time out before they even got a chance to get to their shotgun let alone their pistol, the 180 secs kept things moving and was absolutely necessary.

The 3rd stage was tough and, as a newbie, if I had started on that stage I think I would have packed er' in and taken up archery But I got through it with 8 seconds to spare and though it wasn't my favourite stage it pushed me. I got to have a ton of fun AND become a better shooter...can't ask for more than that!

 

[PaulR42]

I liked stage 4 the best, stage 1 next except the RO is a pain! Almost as bad as the RO for stage 2!!!
I had a great time, enjoyed most stages, but I also noticed that shooters were timing out. I realize that there needs to be some challenge for the experienced shooters, but with timing out, I won't see how I would have done on the stage. Sure my time would have been high, but still more to the score. I'm competing against me, like to see how I do.
This match showed me just how bad a shape I'm in. I was also overheating by the time I was half way through.
My only request, some shade set up. But then again, I do remember #####ing about too cold at a previous match,,,,,,
Great match, lots of fun, thanks again to all involved.

 

[colt45gunner]

everyone seems to like stage 5. I don't recall the stage#'s. Which one was that ?
Overall, they were all pretty good.

 

[Cmiller82]

everyone seems to like stage 5. I don't recall the stage#'s. Which one was that ?
Overall, they were all pretty good.

Stage 5 was the orange block in the no-shoot. Then on to the clays and metal with the rifle (hopefully using the dump tube for support). Then 6 clays with the Shotgun, then 6 steel with the no-shoot, then 3 more hanging steel. Then on to the hundgun... which is just a blur for me...

 

[pauls]

I can only comment on what I saw in my squad, but a major factor that lead to a couple of the time outs was the fact the rifle's zero wasn't verified before coming out to the match.

People were spending a lot of time (and ammo) trying to make their hits when their shot wasn't going where they were aiming.
The day of the competition isn't the time to be figuring that out.
Ideally, you need to know where your rifle hits from 10 yards to 300
I can guarantee that if we had to shoot clays at 10 yards with the rifle, quite a few people would be missing like crazy because they aren't familiar with their bullet's flight path.

Compounding this was the fact that we were sometimes required to shoot from unorthodox or challenging positions.
I saw some people have a hard time holding their rifle steady while in these positions.

Maybe attending a 3gun intro course of some sort, kind of like the one Team Hoser is holding at the end of July, would greatly help anyone who had difficulty with the stages this weekend.
You could learn technique through trial and error and range time, or someone can show you the most effective techniques and you can practice perfecting them.

 

[667]

I think Pauls nailed it...

Judging by the damage to some of the barricades some shooters aren't even aware of the distance/off set between their sight tower/scope and their bore...

Another huge factor I noticed was stage planning...
Just showing up to the line with enough loaded mags on you is a huge step towards success.

 

[JOJOPINTO]

It was a great match, I had no issues with the par time even after I screwed my back about half way through, I am one of the slowest moving guys to begin with due to my small stature....

Paul has nailed it for sure, more practice shooting is needed by all involved, it will greatly increase speed and transitions...

 

[bersmith]

as RO for stage one and two....which everyone said I was horrible.LOL

Shooters didnt know where they put their mags and gear and ate up serious time looking for mags and shells. They thought about the first firing position and not the entire stage. as soon as they left the first postion they were lost.

Three gun is knowing how you are going to shoot the entire stage not just one portion of it. This is a new game to Canada and will take shooters a while to learn how to play.

Keep training. shoot straight and get some trigger time.

 

[ricochet]

***

 

[colt45gunner]

O.k. yes, Stage 5 was a good one.. It started good for me cause I hit that orange square on my first shot (Honestly, must have been luck, just pulled trigger as cross hairs swung by that way..) and did decent on the shotgun portion, but then, even though pistol is more my forte out of the 3 guns, I wasn't on the ball with it saturday, and took extra shots there and lost time or timed out...

overall my rifle shooting was good for the entire match, but I do take long to get off my shots to ensure a hit, as I can't hold it very steady, thus some time lost there too.

As Paul said you gotta know where your the bullet travels...get in the range time to go sight in.. I went twice in last 2 weeks to shoot the AR and know where it hits at 50 - 100 yards...still need to practice to know 200 - 300 yrds a little better, which I'll do very soon...

And know your set up... i had a vest system in my bag, but didn't need it for shotgun or pistol ammo, only could of come in handy for reload of rifle mags, but was lazy to put on just for that and I would boil in it, so just used cargo pants for few mags... lost time there, but didn't care..

Overall all stages were good mix of close and far shots... skinny poppers were evil !!!

Thanks again TH !!!

 

[HamiltonTactical]

Post the times! Some of us 'tacticool' types want to know how hard they floperated!

 

[667]

floperated

That there is my new favorite word

Worhkin on 'em right now... Just formatting... 'Will be posted tonight

 

[dunsforo]

Ideally, you need to know where your rifle hits from 10 yards to 300.

I agree totally with Pauls. that is why in the last couple of weeks I went out to 200yds (longest range I have acess to) and was able to hit bull. The day before the match, I had checked out the 25/50yd zero and I was dead on. putting 5 rounds in a little, teeny red ball quite easily off-hand at 50yds. It was quite frustrating to not be able to hit those fershlugginer metal targets at 50yds. I was smoking them at the EESA Polar match at 100yds. I dunno. On the upside, I saved a lot of pistol/shotgun ammo 'cause I couldn't get past the damn mandatory rifle targets on a couple of stages. OH well, just another excuse to go rifle shooting more to figure out what the hell I am doing wrong.
I like to blame it on my blind eye, but I am not sure that's a valid excuse - but I will continue to use it.
I am really sorry I couldn't stay longer to help cleanup, but my kitchen pass had already long expired.
I had a great time anyways, and hoping to not repeat my actions at the next match.

 

[667]

Scores are up>>>> HERE

Congratulations to division winners and a special 'atta boy to Paul S for placing 1st overall regardless of division...