2015 Ontario Moose hunting reg's

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OntJim

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Today I found the current 2015 hunting regulations on line. I wanted to see what changes had been made in the moose hunting rules. Our group travels about 750 miles north to a fly in point and then go another 50 miles. Our chosen hunting period is the second week of the season or the last week of Sept. Found out today that calf hunting can only be done in the last week of Oct. and the first week of Nov. In addition the number of tags for adult animals has been reduced. We do not have enough pool 1 applicants to qualify for a guaranteed tag.

Obviously we will not find out whether we are successful in the draw until sometime in August. There is a good possibility we will not draw a tag thus will not be able to hunt in the time slot we have reserved. We realize that at best calf hunting is a low per centage hunt. In the last 20 years I think we have seen calf moose twice. It leaves us in a poor position and the outfitter in an even worse situation if we cancel in August. At that point it will be unlikely he can find any replacement hunters.

I think the time is long overdue for the MNR to adopt the system used in some US states (Wy. for example) wherein you pay for your license and go in the draw. If you fail to draw your fee is refunded less a nominal handling fee.

What do others think about this? How many of you are likely to be as adversely affected as we are by these rule changes?

I realize the moose herd must be protected but the types of rule changes that have been implemented should have been announced back in Jan. or Feb. so there was time to consider alternatives.

Jim
 
Our group is basically in the same boat. Our guys have managed to switch their holiday period to late October and it looks like we are joining up with another group that hunts the same area as us to get enough pool 1 hunters in order to get a tag. The ministry will never refund your money if you don't get a tag as it seems to be a cash cow for them.(Another tax that will never be repealed)
 
We decided to hunt deer for 2 weeks and skip our moose hunt altogether. I'm excited for the deer hunt but disappointed with the poor management of our moose herd. These sudden changes are purely reactive. The moose herd should never have been allowed to decline in the first place. They should have a lottery right across the board but give out more adult tags. And somebody needs to start managing the native hunt as well. "The keepers of the land" need to do their part, too. That's a federal matter, though.
 
I'm skipping this year. If enough hunters do this maybe the MNR will figure out we are not a cash cow.
 
When the lottery/tag system was introduced in Ontario the MNR experts produced tons of facts and figures to show that essentially un-regulated calf hunting DIDN'T hurt the herd, in fact it was actually beneficial. They even produced a guide stating such in 1984 (I think).

Ok, they got that one wrong.

So ten or fifteen years back they restricted the calf hunting to "grow the herd" in a half dozen or so WMU's around Algonquin park. Today the number of tags is down because the experiment didn't work - nothing improved.

So they got it wrong back in the 80's and then the "corrective action" which has been in place in a few area's "and didn't work" is now the prescription for the entire province.

But hey, they are the professionals.

If they were serious then licence money wouldn't be the issue. And agree, a total overhaul of the lottery/tag system should be in order.

Why not go with a multi-pool system, like pools 1 through 6 (or whatever - when I lived in Nfld there was 4 pool levels, 5 really because there was a 1A and 1B).

You applied "free of charge" for a licence by area and ### of the animal and IF you pulled a tag you paid for it then.

Now I realize it costs "something" to run the lottery (I hear computers are unionizing now and want annual raises) so I would not be averse to paying a "token fee", 10 bucks or whatever to "enter the draw".

If they limited the number of calf tags per WMU along with the Cows/Bulls, I would still prefer that to their "shortened season".

While it would "suck" that you might have to wait five or six years to make it to Pool 1, you could at least plan around that. It would give all moose hunters better odds of pulling a tag - in the less popular areas the tags might stretch down to pool 3 or 4 (or whatever) but in the area's where groups wait years at least the successful groups would be far down the pool list sharing the tags amongst a larger total group of hunters (which is one of the "goals" of the tag system in the first place).

But maybe we have it all wrong.

We "assume" they are addicted to the licence fees for moose, when perhaps the Government of the Day's goal is to chase us all from Moose hunting all together.

After the backlash from the original closure of the spring bear hunt maybe now they just want to make us "quit on our own" so they can say "It wasn't us, hunters gave up on their own".
 
I think they need to change the system drastically, as you've suggested. I still plan on buying a tag this year and applying but won't be making a dedicated moose hunt. We're just going to hunt calves while it overlaps the deer season for 4 days. I honestly can't say that I would even shoot a calf if one were to walk out in front of me this year. Who knows, though, somebody will get drawn for some adult tags in WMU42. It just might be me!
 
I hear you. We have never shot a calf and never really had a desire to - it certainly wasn't the focus of our hunt.

But even in years we didn't pull an adult tag we would still go "because we have calf tags", so still going "moose hunting".

But NOW without an adult tag we won't even bother going. We hunt up in WMU 25 about 100 miles north of Cochrane (go in by train) and that is no place to be primitive camping in the end of October. The weather is already getting nasty in later September when the season opens.

So if we don't have an adult tag we aren't going to drive the ten hours to Cochrane, pay the cost of the train and camp out just to shoot a few partridge. And nobody along the way is going to get any of our money for gas/groceries/supplies and a hotel overnight on the way up and back.

Hey, but MS. Wynne can take our 50 whatever bucks for the "unusable" tags and have herself a nice breakfast, complete with $15/glass orange juice billing it all to the taxpayer as "government business" :)
 
Stop the calf hunt altogether.
Put in for adult draw for a small fee.
If you draw, you pay for tag and go hunt.
Dont draw, dont hunt.
Most places in the US treat their Elk draws like this, and it works. Western provinces have their similar LEH draw system.

The mnrf isnt concerned about losing revenue. Even if half the 100, 000 moose hunters didnt buy a license, thats still only 0.003% of their operating budget.
 
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Totally agree that the system is horrible. Have to pay and enter the draw every year to get a chance for next year. Bring in a new hunter and they don't count in the draw for another year. Pay your money and find out late that you are screwed and then have to decide what to do. We have kept moving further and further north. Now there is only one WMU left that one can drive to that has a guaranteed group size of 3.
I have never liked to shoot calves. I don't understand why it takes more pool 1 hunters to have a guaranteed bull tag than a cow tag. Don't bulls breed more than one cow? Hear of parties that have given up drawing for adult moose and hunt in the more southern areas by driving for calves. I have been told by knowledgeable people that bears are the biggest predators of calves and will target the islands where cows go to give birth. I keep hearing bear numbers are up. Why can't they bring back the spring bear hunt. If I knew this time of year that I wasn't going to have a chance to shoot an adult moose in ON, then I could plan to go to NFLD or elsewhere, but I shouldn't have to pay for the licence up front if I don't get an adult tag.
 
At least in Manitoba you pay for your draw license up front and if you are not successful they refund you most of your money . Saves people from being drawn and not paying for a license. What I would like to know is why members here jump all over a newbie when they post items for sale in this section and yet no one says anything about a topic like this that should be clearly posted in the hunting section as it has nothing to do with hunting and sporting arms.
 
We put in for tags this year... but we are changing units... in studying the stats, I think we are in a WMU that gives us a high chance of a tag... but not guaranteed. Regardless, we are going... we'll switch to grouse/walleye/bears if the bull tag does not arrive... I did notice that the MNR Jacked the gauranteed group sizes for archery units in anticipation of an influx of applications... the numbers don't even remotely represent the actual stats.
 
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