so all of the CRO's were dicks were they?
2016 Canadian IPSC Nationals
- Thread starter js
- Start date
so all of the CRO's were dicks were they?
They absolutely deserve credit and recognition for their hard work. But that doesn't give them the right or excuse to treat others poorly.
Well to the people who actually posted positive comment thanks .
To the rest next time there is no one willing to host the Nationals as was the case this year I will not be stepping up ,you are the most ungrateful self centered bunch I have ever had the pleasure of dealing with. Slavex please send me the $50 dollars for shipping your stuff back from the last nationals that you have been welching on have for the last 6 years and if you like the matches in Europe feel free to stay there and never return .
This is the last Time I will ever step up to do the most Thankless job in our Sport.
Jim Smith
To the rest next time there is no one willing to host the Nationals as was the case this year I will not be stepping up ,you are the most ungrateful self centered bunch I have ever had the pleasure of dealing with. Slavex please send me the $50 dollars for shipping your stuff back from the last nationals that you have been welching on have for the last 6 years and if you like the matches in Europe feel free to stay there and never return .
This is the last Time I will ever step up to do the most Thankless job in our Sport.
Jim Smith
carsmovies
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Mississauga, Ontario
1riot1ranger
CGN Regular
- Location
- Calgary, AB
I thought it was great. Jim and the NS crew put on a fantastic show. Not just the match, but the entire production was well organized and executed.
There were some very challenging stages. A complete test of a shooter's abilities. I don't think I've seen a match where there were as many zeroed stages (and zeroed by experienced shooter...). If you've any holes in your game they were showcased. Mine certainly were (not paying the close full sils the respect they deserve...).
I think it's hard to separate individual performance from the overall experience. It was a difficult match. Few people I talked to felt "good" about their performance.
I hope Jim reconsiders as I don't have a lot reasons to travel to NS. But if the Nats were ever held there again, I'd be up at whatever time to make sure I was registered.
There were some very challenging stages. A complete test of a shooter's abilities. I don't think I've seen a match where there were as many zeroed stages (and zeroed by experienced shooter...). If you've any holes in your game they were showcased. Mine certainly were (not paying the close full sils the respect they deserve...).
I think it's hard to separate individual performance from the overall experience. It was a difficult match. Few people I talked to felt "good" about their performance.
I hope Jim reconsiders as I don't have a lot reasons to travel to NS. But if the Nats were ever held there again, I'd be up at whatever time to make sure I was registered.
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Jim, take heart. Below is what I posted on the Ontario forum.
- Ralph Dunn Range was great.
- Really appreciated the sun shade canopies at each range.
- Match was awesome. Second time at a nationals for me and although last year was great I have to say this was my favorite match ever. Kudos to Jim, Sean and the team who made it happen. Nothing quite like a 3 target 50 meter prone stage keep things interesting. Interestingly I only had 1 mike on this stage and got good hits. I unfortunately had about a dozen other mikes in the match most of which were near shots. Sheesh, go figure.
- Jim had a CTV news crew at the match and we made the news on TV. May was awesome!
- My gun broke (lost elevation screw on rear sight) and had to run from range 8 (about half a klick
) to the vendor tent to see if I could find a spare part. Josko, Frank at CRAFM and Devon at Freedom Ventures all scrambled to find replacement screw and springs or whole rear sight. Couldn't find one and Devon texted Sean who drove up to the vendor tent and pulled the parts off one of his new guns on display. Fixed it and no charge. Frank, Josko, Devon and especially Sean, you guys are awesome. Jooged back just in time to shoot. - A good buddy got DQd. Man that sucks.
- On Saturday (last day for most), the RCMP had setup on the road a few klicks from the range. They were stopping everyone. When I got there I said "Hello officer how are you today?" He said fine and asked where I was going, I said "to my hotel" to which he then said "On Spectacle drive?", I paused for a sec and said "Yes, how did you know?" and then I followed up with, "Ah you saw my IPSC shirt", he smiled and said have a good day. So no harm done, maybe he was looking for intoxicated people in any event that was it.
- Overall awesome fun, wish I finished better but hey there's always next year.
Thank you and the team for the enormous amount of time and effort.
Bill
I thought the match was great. It was a very challenging non-hosefest match I have shot yet. I'm not a long time IPSCer, but it gave me a rude awakening in what I should have been practicing more. I enjoyed the lack of no shoots. Your failure to hit targets wasn't doubly penalised which was fair. The stages and effort put in was amazing in my opinion. Craig did a fantastic job with sponsors and gave them the recognition they deserved. If I knew such, I would of stepped up as a non-firearms industry sponsor.
Jim your crew did a great job. You put on a fantastic shoot and that is the main thing. Everyone knows that officials are not equal across the board either in rule calling or in their temperament. Don't take that on yourself.
Jim your crew did a great job. You put on a fantastic shoot and that is the main thing. Everyone knows that officials are not equal across the board either in rule calling or in their temperament. Don't take that on yourself.
That might have looked weird....I laughed at that one, butt didn't have a camera
Lets see, money for shipping was sent ages ago Jim, and I've heard absolutely zero from you to tell me you never received it. Feel free to post the emails where you've repeatedly asked me for the money and I welched on sending it.
It wasn't Jim's fault that the RM acted the way he did, or that some CRO's decided to act like dicks (and no Walter, you weren't one of them, which is why I thanked you personally).
The fact is though, there were enough of these things happening that it pissed a lot of people off. Having a CRO answer a very simple question with "Because I'm the f$#king CRO and I say so, that's why" to his very first squad of the match is not a great way to start the day. Then having the same CRO come up and threaten to DQ you for not "following the reasonable commands of a range officer" makes the stage even less enjoyable. Then, when showing the CRO the video of what the RO actually said and having him stomp away pissed off, well, you can probably see how that sets up the day.
I know Jim worked his ass off, and I appreciate that he did so, but that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion. I attended a massive match in Russia back in May, the admin of the match fell apart for the MD, and we ran hours late every day. He was absolutely torn to shreds on the Russian forums and Facebook by many of the Russian shooters. His response? He admitted it fell apart and that things went beyond his control. He apologized for that, and says next year he'll do better. And in fact the very next match he did, a rifle match, was run perfectly. And yes, I expect certain things of our nationals, having attended them almost every year since 2000. I remember the last one Jim ran, it was one of the best matches I've ever seen in Canada, stages were amazing, presentation was excellent, and officiating was great. Is there something wrong with expecting the same when I heard he was going to run the match this year? I am not blaming Jim for the problems we had with officials, that's not his problem to deal with. Sadly the person who's supposed to deal with it was part of the problem. Which was even admitted to by him at the dinner. So it is pretty obvious that it was recognized as being an issue. Making hard calls is part of being an RO, CRO and RM, but you don't need to be a jerk when making them. you don't need to swear at people and call them names. I DQ'd a good friend of mine, hated doing it, apologized to him for having to do it, he knew I wouldn't have done it if it hadn't needed to be called, we shook hands, and continued on.
Regarding the BC shooter who was initially put in Open and then back to Standard, apparently the RM actually had another RM make the call. So, no it wasn't BC favoring BC. That is new information.
Beyond all that, there were certainly things that were great about the match, which I should have addressed in my other post, and will now seem too late, but still need to be said. The stages absolutely presented great challenges, it was awesome to see an all steel stage and that was a hoot to shoot. Hard targets at 50m (and yeah I zeroed that stage and no I don't blame the stage or the RO for doing so), small targets at 30m that you had to hit to reveal papers, awesome. The bridge and ramp stage, one of the most awesome stages I've seen this entire summer. The stage with all the benches/tables, that was super cool. And the awards ceremony, easily the best one we've ever had in Canada, $45,000.00 in prizes. (hopefully someone publishes a list of all the companies that donated so we can make sure to thank them and of course buy stuff from them). All that was amazing, and like I said on my FB posts Jim and Craig deserve massive thanks for all of that.
It wasn't Jim's fault that the RM acted the way he did, or that some CRO's decided to act like dicks (and no Walter, you weren't one of them, which is why I thanked you personally).
The fact is though, there were enough of these things happening that it pissed a lot of people off. Having a CRO answer a very simple question with "Because I'm the f$#king CRO and I say so, that's why" to his very first squad of the match is not a great way to start the day. Then having the same CRO come up and threaten to DQ you for not "following the reasonable commands of a range officer" makes the stage even less enjoyable. Then, when showing the CRO the video of what the RO actually said and having him stomp away pissed off, well, you can probably see how that sets up the day.
I know Jim worked his ass off, and I appreciate that he did so, but that doesn't mean I can't have an opinion. I attended a massive match in Russia back in May, the admin of the match fell apart for the MD, and we ran hours late every day. He was absolutely torn to shreds on the Russian forums and Facebook by many of the Russian shooters. His response? He admitted it fell apart and that things went beyond his control. He apologized for that, and says next year he'll do better. And in fact the very next match he did, a rifle match, was run perfectly. And yes, I expect certain things of our nationals, having attended them almost every year since 2000. I remember the last one Jim ran, it was one of the best matches I've ever seen in Canada, stages were amazing, presentation was excellent, and officiating was great. Is there something wrong with expecting the same when I heard he was going to run the match this year? I am not blaming Jim for the problems we had with officials, that's not his problem to deal with. Sadly the person who's supposed to deal with it was part of the problem. Which was even admitted to by him at the dinner. So it is pretty obvious that it was recognized as being an issue. Making hard calls is part of being an RO, CRO and RM, but you don't need to be a jerk when making them. you don't need to swear at people and call them names. I DQ'd a good friend of mine, hated doing it, apologized to him for having to do it, he knew I wouldn't have done it if it hadn't needed to be called, we shook hands, and continued on.
Regarding the BC shooter who was initially put in Open and then back to Standard, apparently the RM actually had another RM make the call. So, no it wasn't BC favoring BC. That is new information.
Beyond all that, there were certainly things that were great about the match, which I should have addressed in my other post, and will now seem too late, but still need to be said. The stages absolutely presented great challenges, it was awesome to see an all steel stage and that was a hoot to shoot. Hard targets at 50m (and yeah I zeroed that stage and no I don't blame the stage or the RO for doing so), small targets at 30m that you had to hit to reveal papers, awesome. The bridge and ramp stage, one of the most awesome stages I've seen this entire summer. The stage with all the benches/tables, that was super cool. And the awards ceremony, easily the best one we've ever had in Canada, $45,000.00 in prizes. (hopefully someone publishes a list of all the companies that donated so we can make sure to thank them and of course buy stuff from them). All that was amazing, and like I said on my FB posts Jim and Craig deserve massive thanks for all of that.
I would like to start by saying thanks to ALL the match staff and to anyone else who put in the time to make this match happen. I agree with the above statement “Everyone knows that officials are not equal across the board either in rule calling or in their temperament” what I think is important to remember here is this is a volunteer sport and we all have to accept this fact as part of the game. Yes I’m sure some calls were made that should haven’t been and some that should have been but at the end of the day we are all human. I really enjoyed the trip as a whole and would most defiantly return.
My match didn’t go so well from a personal performance point of view however it most certainly provided me with allot of things I need to improve on. Great job on the stages very challenging.
P.Little
My match didn’t go so well from a personal performance point of view however it most certainly provided me with allot of things I need to improve on. Great job on the stages very challenging.
P.Little
There is a full list of sponsors on our web site at http://ipscnationals2016.ca/sponsors.html
I would post the names here but many are not sponsors for this site so not really the right thing to do...
There was about $40k on the table and I am probably low with that as I did not have some of the values for items. A small part of the sponsorship went to the vendor tent and other items that are are included in the $45k total went into the match kit such as DoubleTap's Brass Bags and Walter's IPSC rulers along with the many other things that were in there... That $45k total when you consider all that was in the match kits is also probably low as I have no idea how much it cost for the CZ towels, key chains, etc, etc.
Net is that our sponsors really stepped up and delivered. I do hope everyone recognizes that despite what they think of the match or officials, etc.
Thanks everyone.
I would post the names here but many are not sponsors for this site so not really the right thing to do...
There was about $40k on the table and I am probably low with that as I did not have some of the values for items. A small part of the sponsorship went to the vendor tent and other items that are are included in the $45k total went into the match kit such as DoubleTap's Brass Bags and Walter's IPSC rulers along with the many other things that were in there... That $45k total when you consider all that was in the match kits is also probably low as I have no idea how much it cost for the CZ towels, key chains, etc, etc.
Net is that our sponsors really stepped up and delivered. I do hope everyone recognizes that despite what they think of the match or officials, etc.
Thanks everyone.
Working my way through the list of sponsors now, thanks.
That prize table is the single best I have ever seen at an IPSC match or any match I've attended. It was outstanding and I will make sure to spend as much as I can with the sponsors when I'm looking for new gear.
That prize table is the single best I have ever seen at an IPSC match or any match I've attended. It was outstanding and I will make sure to spend as much as I can with the sponsors when I'm looking for new gear.
Jim from one National Md to another, ignore the peanut gallery. You produce an awesome match and you should feel proud of the match. Should you decide to do another one and i am still shooting, i will come back and if able i will work your match.
Walter
I don't understand why folks keeping say peanut gallery ? I haven't seen one post here (not that I read them all, but ones I have), that bashed the MD or the match in general ? ? !! The match of which I sadly had to miss, apparently was pretty good, etc.. maybe not perfect, but seems most loved the match... Few folks not being shy to speak their minds about a bad cro, is their right and shouldn't be bashed for it !! So, yes, Jim should be proud of the hard work and good job he's done... as well as Craig and the entire crew !!! Great job guys !!! now be done with that part... cause no one's saying otherwise.
Back to the bad calls.. YES shooters have a right to voice their concerns over bad calls and ro or cro being bad (if they were), etc... and MD's should listen, like a business, and take into account whether or not they should invite that cro back again ? it's only fair the both sides be heard.
And to beat a dead horse, cause I love to do that... I'm still surprised to find out about two RM's being aware of the mags in front pocket issue, and 6 folks get screwed, and one shooter is allowed to get away from it.. sure, it seems that b.c. RM asked other RM to decide on that call (from what I've heard), but when that RM made call that's is o.k... then all the other 6 should have been overturned too !! match would not have been over by then, so o.k. to do so...
Either way you slice it, that call, since was a very active situation, should have been dealt same for all, one way or another... Can't blame folks for being upset... it's only fair that things be fair.
Yes, it's a volunteer sport, but it's the Nats !! teams are going, thousands of dollars spent by sections to sponsor the teams thousands spent by shooters to go and stay there for a week..and some folks are really competing here for prize and recognition, so yes, dam right they have a right to want and expect top notch RO'n and CRO'n and RM'n !!! It's not #####ing and whining if there's real good bases for the complaints.
RO's creed also says to do right by the shooter.. not look for way to screw over...
I wasnt there, but if CRO is yelling and to easily at that, is bad cro and person in general... we all don't need that when also trying to have fun, etc...
As long as complaints have merit, then relax, listen and make suggestion on fixing the problem and not avoiding it.
my 3 cents..again...
Walter
I don't understand why folks keeping say peanut gallery ? I haven't seen one post here (not that I read them all, but ones I have), that bashed the MD or the match in general ? ? !! The match of which I sadly had to miss, apparently was pretty good, etc.. maybe not perfect, but seems most loved the match... Few folks not being shy to speak their minds about a bad cro, is their right and shouldn't be bashed for it !! So, yes, Jim should be proud of the hard work and good job he's done... as well as Craig and the entire crew !!! Great job guys !!! now be done with that part... cause no one's saying otherwise.
Back to the bad calls.. YES shooters have a right to voice their concerns over bad calls and ro or cro being bad (if they were), etc... and MD's should listen, like a business, and take into account whether or not they should invite that cro back again ? it's only fair the both sides be heard.
And to beat a dead horse, cause I love to do that... I'm still surprised to find out about two RM's being aware of the mags in front pocket issue, and 6 folks get screwed, and one shooter is allowed to get away from it.. sure, it seems that b.c. RM asked other RM to decide on that call (from what I've heard), but when that RM made call that's is o.k... then all the other 6 should have been overturned too !! match would not have been over by then, so o.k. to do so...
Either way you slice it, that call, since was a very active situation, should have been dealt same for all, one way or another... Can't blame folks for being upset... it's only fair that things be fair.
Yes, it's a volunteer sport, but it's the Nats !! teams are going, thousands of dollars spent by sections to sponsor the teams thousands spent by shooters to go and stay there for a week..and some folks are really competing here for prize and recognition, so yes, dam right they have a right to want and expect top notch RO'n and CRO'n and RM'n !!! It's not #####ing and whining if there's real good bases for the complaints.
RO's creed also says to do right by the shooter.. not look for way to screw over...
I wasnt there, but if CRO is yelling and to easily at that, is bad cro and person in general... we all don't need that when also trying to have fun, etc...
As long as complaints have merit, then relax, listen and make suggestion on fixing the problem and not avoiding it.
my 3 cents..again...
I tried and tried to ignore but couldn't anymore.
Dear Captain Peanut,
You are a twit (literally the definition of one). You were not there but you keep bringing up what you "heard" or were "told" like a little school girl spreading rumours, trying to stir up drama. Let the ones who were "wronged" voice the concerns, they do not need you to carry their torch. No one cares about your opinion in this matter as it has no substance or actual fact that you can swear to. Go and do something productive like sell some of your glasses etc. and please proof read and spell check your opinionated posts as they are hard on the brain.
End rant.
I witnessed a nasty CRO It happened. IPSC matches are enjoyed by many because of the work of volunteers. Volunteers build stages, organize, RO ect... If you want uniformity of product then go to Disneyland.
Lol "Captain Peanut"...that's gonna stick
Bwahahaha.
Let's get this going in another direction. If I was Jim and put all that effort in only to be told my match was MEH I would want to turn Rob into a pretzel myself. Hahaha Rob you know I love you man, thanks for the pic! How about some match pics to change the subject. Here are some screen shots of me from the match....
