2016 ORA outlook
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Gunnerlove
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vancouver Island
I can run a 101 rnd 12 match comp in one day on a 500m range. But I also involve movers and positional shooting to up the challenge.
A 600 yard range is more than adequate if you're doing more than just TR/F-class style prone shooting. The majority of shots in a PRS match are at 600 yards or less, but they are shot off of barricades and improvised positions. And Meaford has a 2000 meter field range that has a mechanical mover and facades that would make for an amazing match. I mentioned Meaford to the new PRS director (former US SOF sniper); he had trained there and he raved about the facilities at Meaford. He said it would be hands down the best facility the series has ever used.
The ORA needs to move PR to a modern match format. Why use an archaic known distance range if you can get access to stuff like this:
http://barrie.ctvnews.ca/reservists-getting-battle-ready-in-meaford-1.1419684
The ORA needs to move PR to a modern match format. Why use an archaic known distance range if you can get access to stuff like this:
http://barrie.ctvnews.ca/reservists-getting-battle-ready-in-meaford-1.1419684
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Typical old school attitude. I've been a member of the ORA for more than 30 years and I for one would like to see some significant changes to what the ORA has to offer. Target rifle and F-class will always be with us but there are many more people interested in PRS type shooting. Just have a look at the attendance at CQB and SR matches. We would be foolish not to tap into this potential. As Kombayotch says, if we stick to old style shooting matches only, we are doomed as an organization.
He will tell you to go to the meeting and voice your concern. It will fall on deaf ears... If the organization was set up so that the membership elected the executive, things would be very different. But it's not set up that way. Its set up so that a certain discipline that is a small minority within the organization can maintain control over it. What more people want doesn't matter.
We have a hard time getting people to run a practice day let alone a major match. This isn't something that you can throw together on the fly and make it happen. Admin would be huge to pull something like this off. And you have to sell this type of match to the DND and have them buy into so you can hold your match there. You have to remember this organization is run by a bunch of volunteers in their spare time. Like I said guys, organize it yourself and fill your boots.
If you look at the PR results on the ORA web page, I think the most shooters ever out to an event was under 30. The 5 year trend for PR shooters averages 10-12 for each shoot. I am not knocking the numbers, just saying that out of that core of 12, how many have the time to put into running a match of this magnitude?
If you look at the PR results on the ORA web page, I think the most shooters ever out to an event was under 30. The 5 year trend for PR shooters averages 10-12 for each shoot. I am not knocking the numbers, just saying that out of that core of 12, how many have the time to put into running a match of this magnitude?
No one is buying Atari systems, so why start selling Playstation, right? If you have no interest, that tells you something needs to change.
The exec was the one who brought up Meaford and touted being able to get it. I said very clearly then that I would take it and run a match. When everything was cancelled this year, I again asked for access. I was told I needed to write a match manual. I wrote a 36 page match manual on my frikken honeymoon and sent it in when I got back. A dozen follow-ups later, I was told that they couldn't be bothered to take action on it.
Even without going the PRS route, they could have attempted to gain access to Meaford's KD range to at least give PR shooters something. No effort was made.
The exec was the one who brought up Meaford and touted being able to get it. I said very clearly then that I would take it and run a match. When everything was cancelled this year, I again asked for access. I was told I needed to write a match manual. I wrote a 36 page match manual on my frikken honeymoon and sent it in when I got back. A dozen follow-ups later, I was told that they couldn't be bothered to take action on it.
Even without going the PRS route, they could have attempted to gain access to Meaford's KD range to at least give PR shooters something. No effort was made.
Since Meaford isn't a range that the ORA normally uses, getting a foot in the door would be using the gallery range a few times to get a feel for each other. One advantage of Borden is that relationships have been built and we are well established there.
I run Cedar Springs for the ORA. I have had to deal with numerous, every changing Base Commanders, ASU Commanders, Range Control NCO's, and other people that do not know who or what we are. Some have been very understanding, others couldn't care less about us and see us as just another added burden of their job.
Everything that is a change from the "normal" of what the military does on a range, needs to be cleared all the way up the chain of command. What to shoot any calibre other than 7.62 or 5.56? You need to get approval. Electronic target? Need approval, Black powder, need approval. Want to shoot a .243, .30-30, .30-06, need approval.
Bring your match manual to the AGM and sell your ideas there and please leave it off this open forum.
I run Cedar Springs for the ORA. I have had to deal with numerous, every changing Base Commanders, ASU Commanders, Range Control NCO's, and other people that do not know who or what we are. Some have been very understanding, others couldn't care less about us and see us as just another added burden of their job.
Everything that is a change from the "normal" of what the military does on a range, needs to be cleared all the way up the chain of command. What to shoot any calibre other than 7.62 or 5.56? You need to get approval. Electronic target? Need approval, Black powder, need approval. Want to shoot a .243, .30-30, .30-06, need approval.
Bring your match manual to the AGM and sell your ideas there and please leave it off this open forum.
So, based on the title of the thread, I'd say the 2016 outlook = bleak.
Too bad the Ontario RIFLE Association has no interest in the fastest growing RIFLE shooting sport to come along in decades.
Hopefully someone takes the reigns on a PRS style event, and the ora can carry on happily with it's average turn out of 10 -12 shooters.
Too bad the Ontario RIFLE Association has no interest in the fastest growing RIFLE shooting sport to come along in decades.
Hopefully someone takes the reigns on a PRS style event, and the ora can carry on happily with it's average turn out of 10 -12 shooters.
Sherlock Gnomes
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- St.Catharines
With all due respect and I applaud you for running Cedar Springs matches I think that having it out in the open is the way to go. I have been a member with the ORA for three years and it is not a widely known organization from my contact with the average shooter out there. It was attending on of the intro days that focused my attention into the precision shooting competition. I feel getting some attention on here where you might generate more interest in the sport is a good thing. I am too novice to run an event but would love to be a second in command with someone who knows more than I do to shadow and learn from.
arcticcathonda
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Southern Alberta
Can't say I blame you. This problem is a plague in a lot of places. Only thing to do is head down, power forward get PRS off the ground. And perhaps write a eulogy for the organizations with an archaic style of thinking and self serving focus.
Yes, please go ahead an try to deal with the DND for their ranges, not being part of a provincial or national body. I am not saying that it can't be done, but be prepared to do at least a year of ground work before firing your first shot. Be prepared to have a few million in liability insurance. Spend a few grand on having targets made, be able to place and retrieve them and store them between matches. Build all your shooting structures, place, retrieve and store them between matches. Then someone sitting at a desk at NDHQ who hasn't seen a real range in 5 years is going to do a risk assessment. Let me know how that works out for you.
I would suggest forgetting about DND range altogether. Maybe look at private range facilities more oriented towards operational shooters.
I would suggest forgetting about DND range altogether. Maybe look at private range facilities more oriented towards operational shooters.
It's interesting that my local gun club has about 1000 (one thousand) members and is growing so fast that we have to restrict new membership applications by now. The ORA, or any other PRA, has been struggling for decades with losing members on the other hand. IMHO, the difference is that the local clubs provide the kind of shooting that people want. What that tells me, is that there are numerous people interested in the shooting sports in Ontario, and Canada in general, provided they can find the shooting disciplines they're interested in. PRS is a fast growing discipline in the US and, again in my opinion, it would be no different here in Canada. What is needed is for a core group of people with a vision to get together and make this happen, with or without the "official" PRAs.
Sherlock Gnomes
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- St.Catharines
Maybe you are right.. a private range would likely be a better route but then you would still need to have CFO or whichever province you are in to approve.
This thread has been side tracked a little from the question that was asked.
Mons will likely stay closed for next year. The ORA Annual Matches will likely be held at Connaught again.
Amiens range is still up and running and will continue to be booked as much as possible. Please remember the PRA's are on the bottom of the priority list when it comes to range time.
Kingston will have a full program.
Winona, 18 dates will be submitted for consideration.
Cedar Springs, still on ongoing battle for weekend range time.
Service Rifle and CQB will likely not see much change.
PR can book Amiens or Kingston to do all their short range stuff. For the long range part of the match either reduced targets could be used. Or do all the short range matches and book Connaught for a whole weekend to take care of all the long range parts of the match. Or straight up book Connaught for several weekends and move the whole program there for the year.
Mons will likely stay closed for next year. The ORA Annual Matches will likely be held at Connaught again.
Amiens range is still up and running and will continue to be booked as much as possible. Please remember the PRA's are on the bottom of the priority list when it comes to range time.
Kingston will have a full program.
Winona, 18 dates will be submitted for consideration.
Cedar Springs, still on ongoing battle for weekend range time.
Service Rifle and CQB will likely not see much change.
PR can book Amiens or Kingston to do all their short range stuff. For the long range part of the match either reduced targets could be used. Or do all the short range matches and book Connaught for a whole weekend to take care of all the long range parts of the match. Or straight up book Connaught for several weekends and move the whole program there for the year.
