That's rich coming from someone who only shoots TR.
2016 ORA outlook
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That's rich coming from someone who only shoots TR.
If the membership could elect an executive that represented them, it would be worthwile attending the AGM. But, since the organization is set up so that one discipline (one that probably makes up the smalest percentage of the membership) can maintain control, it's rather pointless. A second class majority begging a ruling class minority for better treatment seldom leads to meaningful changes.
Reading over this thread, there are too many people to quote from. I have been an ORA member for 14 years now. I started out shooting F-Class then switch over to TR and now I shoot PR. I am just your average shooter. A few things for thought. I do not, by any means to step on anyone's toes. Everyone that has replied to this thread has a value point. My reply is base on PR shooting for the ORA.
1.) I am surprised that the PR Chair for the ORA which is Adam I believe has not responded to this thread. Maybe he has some information he can past along on why PR only got a clinic last year. Was it mention to him last year that he could of booked Kingston or go to Ottawa for a shoot? I know it was his first year as acting as PR chair. Are shooters willing to travel to Kingston or Ottawa for a PR match knowing that Borden was mostly shut down last year. I think there were only a handful of ORA PR shooters that attended the Nationals last year. I was one of them along with my shooting partner.
For the upcoming season, when there is a "open practice booked" at Borden, does PR always need to run a match or can they practice along side with the F'ers and TR on the other side of the range. For example, The TR and F'ers gang can practice their course of fire at the 300 and PR can practice their course of fire at 300 then move on back to whatever distance can be shot at next. I know 2 years ago when they both shot along side together it was a crap shoot. Keep in mind that was the first time that this has been done. Of course there were a lot of bugs but that is something that has to be worked on to make both sides happy. Then hopefully there will be ranges booked for a match for PR were we have the range to ourselves. Is that something willing to try again?
2.) I am pretty sure that none of the ORA execs are not members of CGN. So all the concerns that are going on in this thread is only going on in this thread and is not getting past along to the execs. Unless members are emailing them with their concerns. There is a lot of discussion that has to go on at the AGM. I know people have gone and nothing happens. Trust me, I know. I have been on council the last few years.
If only a hand few of PR shooters go to the AGM and express their concerns, then we are not getting our word past along. Over the years I've been at AGM's I have only seen a few PR shooters that only shoot PR attend. Mostly it is SR and CQB are in the crowd along with F'ers and TR. If we can get a lot of members that shoot only PR attend the AGM meetings. Things can go our way. Last year AGM was a very low turn out from what I have heard.
3.) Kombayotch are you willing to represent the members if you were elected? Like maynard has mention in a previous post, it takes a lot of volunteering time to get things accomplish for each class of shooting. Who would be willing to step it up to represent the members? I think we should all be letting the PR chair know our concerns and what PR shooters are willing to do to back him up, as he represent PR for the ORA and attends all the council meetings where all the decision making happens.
1.) I am surprised that the PR Chair for the ORA which is Adam I believe has not responded to this thread. Maybe he has some information he can past along on why PR only got a clinic last year. Was it mention to him last year that he could of booked Kingston or go to Ottawa for a shoot? I know it was his first year as acting as PR chair. Are shooters willing to travel to Kingston or Ottawa for a PR match knowing that Borden was mostly shut down last year. I think there were only a handful of ORA PR shooters that attended the Nationals last year. I was one of them along with my shooting partner.
For the upcoming season, when there is a "open practice booked" at Borden, does PR always need to run a match or can they practice along side with the F'ers and TR on the other side of the range. For example, The TR and F'ers gang can practice their course of fire at the 300 and PR can practice their course of fire at 300 then move on back to whatever distance can be shot at next. I know 2 years ago when they both shot along side together it was a crap shoot. Keep in mind that was the first time that this has been done. Of course there were a lot of bugs but that is something that has to be worked on to make both sides happy. Then hopefully there will be ranges booked for a match for PR were we have the range to ourselves. Is that something willing to try again?
2.) I am pretty sure that none of the ORA execs are not members of CGN. So all the concerns that are going on in this thread is only going on in this thread and is not getting past along to the execs. Unless members are emailing them with their concerns. There is a lot of discussion that has to go on at the AGM. I know people have gone and nothing happens. Trust me, I know. I have been on council the last few years.
If only a hand few of PR shooters go to the AGM and express their concerns, then we are not getting our word past along. Over the years I've been at AGM's I have only seen a few PR shooters that only shoot PR attend. Mostly it is SR and CQB are in the crowd along with F'ers and TR. If we can get a lot of members that shoot only PR attend the AGM meetings. Things can go our way. Last year AGM was a very low turn out from what I have heard.
3.) Kombayotch are you willing to represent the members if you were elected? Like maynard has mention in a previous post, it takes a lot of volunteering time to get things accomplish for each class of shooting. Who would be willing to step it up to represent the members? I think we should all be letting the PR chair know our concerns and what PR shooters are willing to do to back him up, as he represent PR for the ORA and attends all the council meetings where all the decision making happens.
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And that is a very close minded comment from a Mod.
I have been a match director, and I have been a representative on the council. The representatives are lower level. It's basic the plebs getting to sent a representative to a court full of nobles who actually hold the power. They can do little more than make suggestions.
There is no mechanism for the membership to elect the real decision makers and there lies the problem.
PitBull1973
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Right Behind You
Voting on things in meetings doesn't accomplish much when the number of TR people outnumber the total number of people from other disciplines combined and when the make up of that group is decided by the group itself.
Every member of the ORA is eligible for any position within the organization. Every member only has one vote on any issue. Besides the AGM, with Council meeting immediately before and after the AMG there are at least 2 other council meetings and at least one program meeting. Decisions are made by those that show up, simple as that. You want a voice? Show up at the meetings. If your feelings are hurt and you feel everyone is against you because you didn't get enough shooting last year, come and tell us how to do a better job. Please let us know what you are willing to do to help your own situation. If you are a PR shooter, would you be willing to shoot your short range program over a couple weekends at either Kingston or Ameins and be willing to travel to Connaught for a weekend of just long range program? Or would you be willing to shoot your whole program or modified program on reduced targets at reduced distances? Really guys, you have to think of ways to help yourself.
Yeah, I beleived that the first time around and did what you propose with great enthusiasm. Lots of nice talk at those meetings, but very little action comes out of them. You can re-read the part about trying to get range access for more than two years and no attempt whatsoever being made to even initiate the process. But it great talking about it at the meetings!
You know for a fact that nothing has been done about getting range time in Meaford? I know for a fact that the process has started. There is also some talk about extending Burwash to 1000 yards/900m and the possibility of putting in butts there. Have you been to a meeting in the last 2 years to find out for yourself, or just going by hearsay?
Up until the end of the summer, whenever I asked: "have you spoken to the people at Meaford yet?", the answer was always: "no, haven't yet". This was to Des. I told him many times that I would be glad to contact them... wouldn't let me.
What are you considering it being initiated, the first mention of it at the meeting two years ago? Nothing has been done on it since. Btw, it was also touted to PR shooters at the PR Championship match that year and the reasponse was yes, we want that. But I guess their opinions don't count unless they're heard in a Legion hall...
What are you considering it being initiated, the first mention of it at the meeting two years ago? Nothing has been done on it since. Btw, it was also touted to PR shooters at the PR Championship match that year and the reasponse was yes, we want that. But I guess their opinions don't count unless they're heard in a Legion hall...
- Location
- Meaford Ontario
Maynard, If you could put your energy into helping Kombayotch instead of flappin about he said/she said or didn't say, maybe WE could do something about it. Komb knows that I am more than willing to help from my position here. Lets all get on board!
If you want a quick tour of the facilities up here, let me know and I will see what we can do. Security it tight right now though.
Please go back and read my posts #17, 30, 38, 42, 68, 72, 74, 79 and 89. I think I have offered a few flapping suggestions that have not been answered. Are the PR shooters willing to travel to Connaught to shoot matches? Are they willing to shoot their short range in Borden or Kingston and doing all their long range on one weekend at Connaught (saves some travel time to do it all on one weekend).
Are they willing to shoot a course of fire on reduced targets at shorter range?
FTRookie has offered some help from the NCRRA at Connaught to the PR shooters get something going up there. All he asks is for someone to actually run the match.
How much more help and suggestions do you need? Do I really need to hold your hands and walk you through this?
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doemaster, that's an easy solution. Usually during an open practice relays are broken up into 45 minute blocks. .338LM and .50 cal guys can shoot on target 18-20. PR guys can have targets 22-26, TR and F'ers targets 28-32. Whatever your group wants to do with their group of targets is up to them. Once the relay starts, if the PR guys want to shoot snaps, they have 45 minutes to do so. If the TR/Fer's want to shoot in pairs or 3's or single string, no problem, you got 45 minutes.
I have been sitting back and letting you guys fight about these issues.
First off I like to shoot both PR and Fclass, but my preference is PR because of the pace of shooting and how much shooting you can cover in a day. This pace dose not match up well with Fclass and TR practice or competition. To run a PR COF at the same time as the Kingston Fclass match would have been a Sh#t show. PR would have only got half of its COF done.
I am not going to drive 6 hours one way to shoot 40rd tops in #a day, and I don't know many others that will ether. So Kingston is out for me and several other shooters I would think.
As for practice I am all for shooting beside others. But I do not see how a match could be run this way. Most practices I have been to you only shoot at 1000yd or 900m. If you suggest shooting at different distance people ticked . I can see why it takes to much time to move back and thus cuts into shooting time. I also don't know of any practice that did not get canceled this year other then Kingston.
If we can get onto Borden this year I am all for shooting the short range part of our COF. the long range is just Fclass on PR targets anyway.
I know that Ottawa is interested in running a couple matches next year. I am not sure if they will be run through the ORA or NCRRA.
At this point I think the NCRRA should run these independently of the ORA. It is not like the PR discipline is recognized for any seasonal totals any way. I am willing to run these matches with support.
At this point I am traveling to the US to shoot at least 4 times to make up for the lack of shooting in Ontario and a shot at really good prize tables. I can go down and shoot for 3 days with food and board for what it cost to enter/food for the Fclass nationals. With a round count of 200 in comp and as many as you want in the worm up day.
When the majority of your membership is located with in 3 hours of your main range people are going to be pissed if it is shut down. Yes the CQB guys still shot but I am not going to shoot my bolt gun for this COF. I believe the communication was horrible from the board not telling us Mons is shut down well after they knew. I believe this is why people are so pissed off, that the ORA would take your membership knowing that there is a good chance no long range shooting would happen at Borden in 2015.
If you thought membership dropped in 2015 just wait for 2016.
Ryan
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What we could also do is just have all the matches shoot the PR CoF. It has snaps, mover and deliberates. Something for everyone! TR shooters should be happy doing that, right? It includes shooting that is essentially the same as TR. We can even use their round targets and timings on the deliberates so that it isn't as big of a change for them.
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Helpful as always there Kombayotch.
At no point in my post above did I mention TR/F Class matches shooting alongside PR Matches. This was a suggestion for practice dates only.
For as long as I can remember PR matches have always been one day matches. Would it be worth while to have 2 day matches? the short range part of your CoF could be shot at Amiens or Kingston over 2 days. The long range part of your CoF could be shot on a 2 day weekend in Connaught.
At no point in my post above did I mention TR/F Class matches shooting alongside PR Matches. This was a suggestion for practice dates only.
For as long as I can remember PR matches have always been one day matches. Would it be worth while to have 2 day matches? the short range part of your CoF could be shot at Amiens or Kingston over 2 days. The long range part of your CoF could be shot on a 2 day weekend in Connaught.
