204 ruger > Big bore.... what?

James1873

James1873

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Long story short, someone on a hunting group I was on was deciding between Marlin 45-70 models for black bear. Someone butted in claiming 45-70 wouldn't be effective, and something like there 204 ruger would be better.
Saying that at the range, there friend shot a steel plate with a 45-70 and it didn't damage the plate, but the 204 took a chip out of it, thus the 204 is more powerful cartridge and penetrates better.

What would you say to something like that? They seem 110% convinced there correct. I don't agree, but I don't have a 204 either so I don't know.

I realize most people prefer the smaller faster calibers, but a 204? Have to draw the line somewhere
 
Whoever suggested the .204 is a moron and has very little actual experience... the .45/70 is an excellent choice for black bears... not as excellent as a .308 or .30/06 or .35 Whelen etc... but it will do a great job if the shooter does his/her job... the bullet carries the energy AND momentum to penetrate through the vitals... whereas the .204 does not, even with a monometal bullet... can you kill a bear with a .204, maybe... there are bears and then there are bears... big difference between a 100 pound jeuvenile and an old 500 pound boar... IMO a .204 is pure stunting and in all likelihood will have a bad result.
 
hoytcanon said:
Whoever suggested the .204 is a moron and has very little actual experience... the .45/70 is an excellent choice for black bears... not as excellent as a .308 or .30/06 or .35 Whelen etc... but it will do a great job if the shooter does his/her job... the bullet carries the energy AND momentum to penetrate through the vitals... whereas the .204 does not, even with a monometal bullet... can you kill a bear with a .204, maybe... there are bears and then there are bears... big difference between a 100 pound jeuvenile and an old 500 pound boar... IMO a .204 is pure stunting and in all likelihood will have a bad result.
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35 whelen seems like a cool caliber, be nice if it was popular enough for someone to chamber it in a blr or some other lever
 
James1873 said:
So basically the 204 has no penetration compared to a bigger bullet
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It has much more penetration, but dumps it's full energy .02" into the animal and that is where the bullet expands.

On a thick skinned animal it would literally penetrate, and expand within 4" and go nowhere near the vitals.

Would it work if you hit the animal in the head? Sure. But if you are in a situation where the animal is charging, you want a nice big heavy bullet to penetrate the hide, and put the animal down
 
scott_r said:
Like saying getting hit by a crotch rocket would do more damage then a semi truck. Guys that dumb are scary to be around in a hunting or shooting situation.
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Absolutely. Bear hunting with a .204 I cannot imagine, It is beyond retarded. But heck, it might help weed out a few stupids :)

Edit: In an emergency situation I suppose something is better than nothing, but to actively hunt anything larger than a varmint with this caliber is foolish at best, and fatal at worst.
 
James1873 said:
35 whelen seems like a cool caliber, be nice if it was popular enough for someone to chamber it in a blr or some other lever
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How 'bout in a semi?



The latest Rem 750s were offered in 35 whelen. I ended up getting a 308 instead for versatility and finding ammo. Sorta regret not getting it.
 
I think anyone who states that a 204 is a superior bear cartridge to the 45-70 should be encouraged to prove it on a real bear. I'd love to watch from a distance, and the up side is quite likely one can get to see Darwin's Theory in action, removing the mentally feeble from the gene pool.............
 
For reference.





The 204 actually has a little more whallup than I thought. More or less on par with a .223, which SOME on here advocate for deer and black bear. I'll stick to more proven rounds though.
 
kodiakjack said:
For reference.





The 204 actually has a little more whallup than I thought. More or less on par with a .223, which SOME on here advocate for deer and black bear. I'll stick to more proven rounds though.
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it is quite potent when used within it's limits. .40gn@3977 with a .275 BC on a Hornady Vmax, 275m Zero maintains quite a bit of energy. a 100M Zero completely wastes the capability of this cartridge.
 
Penetration of a steel plate is much different than a "soft" target. I have shot 500 grn roundnose bullets at 3/4" steel which failed to penetrate it, but it did dent the plate on the back side, left a loonie size crater on the front, and tossed it down range......while a .300 win mag would whistle right through the plate.

At the end of the day, bears don't drive armoured cars, so the big heavy roundnose solids are going do more for you.
 
If someone is going to advocate one cartridge or another for bear hunting, maybe they should have actually seen a live bear. A high velocity bullet that lacks both mass and structure, should never be used on big game. If penetrating steel is the question, high velocity is the answer, but penetrating steel and killing big game have nothing in common.
 
Boomer said:
A high velocity bullet that lacks both mass and structure, should never be used on big game. If penetrating steel is the question, high velocity is the answer, but penetrating steel and killing big game have nothing in common.
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Unless your plan is to tickle it...

Cast Bullet Hitting Steel in slow motion may cast a light on the lack of damage to the steel:

 
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