204 ruger > Big bore.... what?

That sorta falls into the "just because you can, doesn't mean you should" catagory. When I'm out plinking with my .223, its entirely possible that I could have a polar bear problem, in which case I'll insert a magazine full of TSXs, and do my best to solve it. That doesn't make the .223 a white bear gun, even though I'm shooting at a 100 pound head, not a 1000 pound bear.

Over the years many outrageous claims have been made of the killing power from high velocity small bore rifles. The .22 Hi-Power was used on all sorts of thin skinned dangerous game, sometimes it worked, but it failed often enough that the practice fell from favor. It seems that whenever a velocity breakthrough occurs, someone is convinced it will result in faster kills without need of that dreadful recoil. Perhaps we should all just shoot 45 gr TSXs at 5000 fps from .22-06s .22-284s, or .22 WSM then we wouldn't need old fashioned big bore rifles like the .243.
 
Boomer said:
That sorta falls into the "just because you can, doesn't mean you should" catagory.


It seems that whenever a velocity breakthrough occurs, someone is convinced it will result in faster kills without need of that dreadful recoil.


Perhaps we should all just shoot 45 gr TSXs at 5000 fps from .22-06s .22-284s, or .22 WSM then we wouldn't need old fashioned big bore rifles like the .243.
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Lol... wholeheartedly agree.
 
c-fbmi said:
I think anyone who states that a 204 is a superior bear cartridge to the 45-70 should be encouraged to prove it on a real bear. I'd love to watch from a distance, and the up side is quite likely one can get to see Darwin's Theory in action, removing the mentally feeble from the gene pool.............
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With video.
 
A fast light caliber for black bear starts at 25/06 moves thru the various 6.5s and up 270 and 7 to 30 cals. However big heavy wide bullets at modest velocity have a proven track record across the globe
Leave the 204 ruger for coyotes and crows

Tell the guy to swing a 2 oz hammer as hard as he can against his knee then try it with a 2lb sledge. Ones faster the other is proof that heavy objects in motion break bones and carry momentum.
 
James1873 said:
...deciding between Marlin 45-70 models for black bear...claiming 45-70 wouldn't be effective...204 ruger would be better...
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The KPS (killing power score) numbers certainly don't support this preposterous claim. Not in terms of a CNS shot because that is instantly fatal using most any round. But rather in terms of wound volume (tissue and bone destruction) which is what the KPS number seems to gauge.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/rifle_killing_power_list.htm

At 50 yards -

204 Ruger, 32gr @ 4050 fps MV: 3.6

45-70, 300gr @ 1880 fps MV: 65.7

:eek:
 
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brybenn said:
A fast light caliber for black bear starts at 25/06 moves thru the various 6.5s and up 270 and 7 to 30 cals. However big heavy wide bullets at modest velocity have a proven track record across the globe
Leave the 204 ruger for coyotes and crows

Tell the guy to swing a 2 oz hammer as hard as he can against his knee then try it with a 2lb sledge. Ones faster the other is proof that heavy objects in motion break bones and carry momentum.
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243 w/85+grain pills (not varmint bullets) is perfectly capable of taking down a black bear too. The biggest problem I see with the 204 is lack of heavy, stout bullets. If you could find like a 50gr tsx in 204cal, it would probably do the job just as well as a 223.

That said, I would pick the 45-70 over 204 even with a good bullet, and I'd pick my 270 over either of them.
 
Suther said:
243 w/85+grain pills (not varmint bullets) is perfectly capable of taking down a black bear too. The biggest problem I see with the 204 is lack of heavy, stout bullets. If you could find like a 50gr tsx in 204cal, it would probably do the job just as well as a 223.
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Is that 85gr 243 "perfectly capable" based on your own personal experience?......... Just asking.

To each there own, but there is no way I would intentionally go Bear Hunting with an 85gr 243. The 243 Is a great cartridge and very versatile, but I'd only say "perfectly capable"....... when everything goes right.
 
GMC403 said:
Is that 85gr 243 "perfectly capable" based on your own personal experience?......... Just asking.

To each there own, but there is no way I would intentionally go Bear Hunting with an 85gr 243. The 243 Is a great cartridge and very versatile, but I'd only say "perfectly capable"....... when everything goes right.
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I haven't done it yet, but I might try next month. The 270 will probably get the nod because it was my first hunting rifle and hasn't been blooded yet though.

I would have zero issues shooting at one with 100gr corelokt factory ammo. At 2960fps, and a sectional density of .242 it is very close to a 25-06 with 115gr doing 3000fps.
 
Last time I checked there were no game animals wearing steel plate.
Compare the two in ballistic medium, or even wet newsprint, for a closer representation to game animal performance.
Even at it's black powder level, the 45-70 will outperform the Ruger if the proper comparison is made.
 
Suther said:
243 w/85+grain pills (not varmint bullets) is perfectly capable of taking down a black bear too. The biggest problem I see with the 204 is lack of heavy, stout bullets. If you could find like a 50gr tsx in 204cal, it would probably do the job just as well as a 223.

That said, I would pick the 45-70 over 204 even with a good bullet, and I'd pick my 270 over either of them.
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I set up various targets to represent what I thought would be as close to a bear as possible. Real moose leg bones. Packaged meat on both sides. Deer carcass from a road kill center all wrapped in an old leather jacket. I shot it with a 223, 243, 25/06, 270 and a 45/70

The 55 gr soft nose bulk bullet was flattened against the moose bone. It did not break it. The 243 was using 100 gr fed blue box I'm not sure what bullet is used but I think it's a game king but I'm not certain. It broke the moose leg and left a lot of damage but didn't make it thru the dead deers ribs. The 25/06 with 117 gr interlock at 3100 fps smashed the moose leg went thru 2 hams the leather jacket and the dead deer with the bullet under the hide of the deer on the far side. The 270 was nearly the same with 130 gr core lock.
The 45/70 with 405 gr round nose Remington at 1600 fps went completely thru. It didn't tear up the first ham near as bad as the faster rounds but it left a 2" hole all the way thru
From this experiment I learned several things. First use a gutted deer carcass if you intend to try to get your bullets back. Second hams get expensive. Most importantly I learned not to reply on paper ballistics. I have a new confidence in both the 25/06 and 45/70.
I agree on a small to medium bear the 243 would do just fine but what if you're hunting in the fall and that 500 lb boar comes in? Will that same 243 be up to that task? To me personally...no. a different bullet may have a different outcome. I'm not saying it won't kill the bear. I just thinking the 25/06 is superior using heavier bullets that are slightly wider.
The 25/06 fits so perfectly between 243 and 270 I sold the 270 and never bought a 243 with the intent to keep it

I won't tell you how to hunt but just remember not all bears are the same build
 
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